As befits a former Olympic sprinter and Wales winger, Nigel Walker has been racing around in recent weeks. He’s been down in South Africa with Wayne Pivac’s squad and then out in Italy with the U20s.
In his role as WRU Performance Director, he’s also been busy dealing with a new direction for Sevens rugby which will see Welsh players combining with those from England and Scotland in a GB team for both men and women. That’s a World Rugby-driven move which has provoked significant criticism, amid anger that Wales will no longer be competing in their own right in the World Series. Some even fear it’s a change which could even be replicated in the 15-a-side game.
Walker also has lots on his plate in terms of issues to address with regard to the four Welsh pro teams and the future of the semi-pro Premiership. So plenty to talk about when I catch up with him for a chat pretty much 12 months to the day since he was appointed to the role.
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Q: Why has it been decided that it should be Team GB in the Sevens World Series?
A: Well, Sevens, globally, is quite a difficult sell. It’s also very expensive. World Rugby are looking to reduce the footprint of Sevens and if you are doing that you have to reduce the number of teams. So it is much easier to ask Team GB to perform in the World Series rather than have England, Scotland and Wales competing as individual teams.
In terms of the results of those three countries in recent times, we are struggling to be competitive, so it makes sense for us to pool our resources to make sure we can be more competitive on the world stage.
We will still be able to compete as Wales in the Commonwealth Games and the World Cup. But in the World Series, which is the biggest stage, we are going to pool our resources with England and Scotland and see if we can be competitive. So people like Luke Treharne and Morgan Williams, who are professional Sevens players, will still have the opportunity to compete in the World Series if they are good enough and they will still be the backbone of the Wales squad which will try to qualify for the Commonwealth Games and World Cup. That would seem to be the performance way forward.
Q: The change has been described as a World Rugby mandate. Did you have any choice in the matter? Could you have said no to being part of Team GB and continued to compete as Wales in the World Series?
A: We could have declined to be part of Team GB, but we wouldn’t have been able to compete as Wales in the World Series. It wasn’t possible. That’s because World Rugby want Team GB to compete there as they are reducing the number of sides. We were mandated to come up with Team GB by season 2023-24. We are bringing it forward a year because if it’s going to happen we think we should do it now because that gives Team GB the best chance of being successful at the 2024 Olympics in Paris.
Our view is we have a better chance of being competitive in the World Series as Team GB, while still having a developmental Sevens programme and competing as Wales in the Commonwealth Games and World Cup. That would seem to be the way forward.
Q: What would you say to those people who see this change as a loss of national identity?
A: I don’t agree. If we weren’t going to be present as Wales at all in Sevens, then I would say, yes, we would have lost something. But we are still going to be in the Commonwealth Games and the World Cup and there may well be something beneath that. The Six Nations are talking, Rugby Europe are talking. We have got to find a Sevens competition programme for Wales, Scotland and England.
Q: Will all this mean the WRU spending less money on Sevens?
A: We are not making this decision to save money. The decision is being made for performance reasons. We receive a financial contribution from World Rugby for taking part in the World Series and we will lose that. But we won’t now have the cost of competing, so the two things cancel each other out. In the first year, our spend on Sevens will be exactly the same. We are not looking to save money here.
Q: The assumption some people are making is that Team GB will be England in all but name and Welsh involvement will be very minimal. What would you say to that?
A: The programme details are still being established, including whether any quotas will be adopted in terms of numbers of players from each country. If there are 21 players in the squad, I am not going to say there are going be seven Welsh players if they are not up to the required standard, because this a performance decision. But what I will do is ensure that those Welsh players of required standard have an opportunity to play for Team GB.
Q: Is there any chance of this switch to Team GB being replicated in the 15-a-side game?
A: Absolutely not and I can say that without fear of contradiction.
Q: Turning to that format of the sport, what’s your assessment of Wales’ tour of South Africa?
A: I travelled out there before the first Test and spent eight days with Wayne (Pivac) and the team. I observed the meticulous nature of their preparation. Now I am not being wise after the event, but when I went on ScrumV in May I said that the margins at the top level are tiny.
In the Six Nations, we probably should have beaten France, possibly could have beaten England and, on another day, we would have beaten Italy. I am not sugar coating the Italian game. It was a very disappointing day and that probably doesn’t do it justice. But we would have probably finished second in the table if those results had gone our way and the ‘Crisis in Welsh rugby’ headlines wouldn’t have been there. That’s what I said at the time.
We went out to South Africa and, from 18-3 up, we should have won the first Test. Everybody was desperately disappointed, but it was a fantastic performance from the guys. The first 15-20 minutes was textbook international rugby.
Now that was the same coaching group who, a couple of months earlier, were told they couldn’t coach a junior school and should be sacked. The second game we won, the third Test was probably a game too far.
Am I pleased with what I saw in South Africa? Absolutely delighted. Has it changed my view? No it hasn’t because my view has stayed the same. I said at the time, after the Six Nations, that people need to have a sense of perspective. People go off on one and that’s fine. But the people running the sport have to have a more emotionless view of where we are going. Wayne has been coaching for over 20 odd years. He is a good coach, full stop.
Q: How do you view the depth at Wales’ disposal a year out from the World Cup?
A: When we played in the 2019 World Cup, as well as we did, by the time we got to the semi-final we were running on fumes. We certainly were by the time we got to the third-place play-off because we simply didn’t have the depth.
Wayne has looked to blood a number of players over the last 18 months or so. We still haven’t got the depth of France or England, but we have probably got 30 players of international level. We didn’t have that 18 months ago.
We have learned about players. You look at someone like Gareth Thomas. He has done remarkably well. If you look at our back row strength on tour, you’ve got Dan Lydiate, Taulupe Faletau, Tommy Reffell and Josh Navidi, plus Taine Basham who was being hailed as a superstar last season. Then you think of Ross Moriarty, Aaron Wainwright and Justin Tipuric who weren’t even out there and you begin to think we’ve got eight or nine players in the back row who are of international standard. We didn’t have that 18 months ago.
Q: What about the younger group of players coming through?
A: After coming back from South Africa, I then went out to Treviso where our U20s were playing in the Summer Series. We topped our group, beating Scotland, Georgia and Italy, which was very encouraging. Yes we lost to South Africa in the final but what they did to us they did to the teams in their group. Italy, who we defeated, beat England.
About six months ago, I got a group together including Wayne, Byron Hayward, Andy Lloyd, Ioan Cunningham and Gareth Williams and we went through about 50 or 60 young players, some of who are still U20s. We said what are we going to do to develop these players, what are you looking for Wayne? From that, we have been focusing on those positions where he felt we needed to increase our depth. We are not throwing this together, it’s a coordinated coherent approach to making Wales the best it can be at senior level. It’s a case of what do we need to do at junior level, U16s and so on.
Q: Where does the Welsh Premiership fit into this development programme?
A: The key is making sure there is a continuous supply of quality players at 21, 22 and 23. That’s what my deliberations with the Premiership have been about because that needs to be the finishing school for those players. Not everyone is going to be like Joe Hawkins, who is going to play his fair share of games for his region. The majority of our U20s are going to need to play at Premiership level. The only way you can do that is if the quality of the Premiership is high enough. Discussions on that are ongoing and I have another meeting with those clubs this week.
Q: What about the future prospects for the four regions?
A: There is a recognition both within the Union and the regions that the whole of the game in Wales needs to be taken forward. So, just like we have had a good summer tour with Wales being successful, there is recognition that we need to work together to ensure the regions mirror the national team in terms of success on the pitch.
Q: It was just over a year ago that you were appointed WRU Performance Director? What’s it been like being back in Welsh rugby?
A: The difficulty is, with the loss against Italy, everybody went absolutely berserk. It was everybody needs to be sacked, we are rubbish, we are in crisis. I am not criticising the media, I worked in the media. But that’s what happens and it’s stoked by people on Twitter and everything else. People go bonkers. That bit has taken me by surprise.
At the end of the day, winning rugby matches is very, very important, because it gives you the time to make the changes. When things are going badly, it’s even more difficult to make change.
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