WA's Corrective Services Minister has indicated he wants to move away from Banksia Hill being the state's only juvenile detention facility – but wants the local government sector to take the lead.
Speaking to the ABC for the first time since Four Corners laid bare conditions inside Banksia Hill, Bill Johnston described the challenges of handling juvenile detainees on remand – meaning they are yet to be sentenced.
"The average stay for remand prisoners is only 13 days," he said.
"They often come in with drug and other challenges, and they are then very disruptive when they enter the facility, it's often very hard to have a proper understanding of what their individual needs are.
"And by the time we're starting to understand their individual needs they're returned by the courts to the community, so it's a very complex environment."
When asked about the possibility of establishing a separate facility for detainees on remand, to remove that pressure from Banksia Hill, Mr Johnston said any local governments wanting to host one should contact him.
However, he said any such facility would need to be close to Perth, as First Nations people from the Kimberley call for an on-country facility as an alternative to youth detention.
"I'm happy to write to every mayor in the local area and invite them to put forward their location," he said.
"If any local government within 100 kilometres of … [Perth] would like to have a youth detention facility built in their community, they should approach me and we will consider it.
"To have a successful facility with the services that we need to provide young offenders, it needs to be proximate to the city."
But the opposition's Peter Rundle dismissed the idea.
"I think it's a state government responsibility. There's no doubt about that," he said.
"As far as I'm concerned, that is not something local government should be dealing with. It is up to the Premier and the Minister."
Existing youth facility is the focus
The Minister said any new facility would take at least five years to set up, reinforcing the need to address issues at Banksia Hill.
He said for that reason, the Canning Vale facility remained his focus as the "principal" youth justice facility for at least the next decade – and ruled out the idea of a planned transition away from that site, as has been proposed.
"The idea that you can simply wish away by magic the challenges of managing the youth correction service is fantasy land, we have to have a genuine pathway to find a solution," Mr Johnston said.
"We're currently investing $21.7 million into Banksia Hill so that we got a better, more therapeutic environment for those young detainees in crisis and at the same time, have a facility that can handle those violent young offenders that are challenging to manage for the staff."
Lockdown claims an 'interpretation' of data
There has been sustained criticism of the government's handling of youth justice by a range of eminent figures over the last week.
They say conditions inside Banksia Hill – and a smaller facility in an isolated part of a maximum-security adult prison – are a "disaster".
Mr Johnston said he "look[ed] forward to experts making their observations" when asked if he agreed with that assessment.
"People need to look at the behaviour of these young offenders before they came into detention to judge whether it's the detention that's caused the issue, or whether there are underlying pathologies that the youth detention facility is having to manage," he said.
In recent months the state's Children's Court has drawn attention to a number of cases where teenagers in juvenile detention have been kept in their cells for so long it amounted to unlawful solitary confinement.
On Monday, President Hylton Quail condemned the treatment of those in detention as he sentenced a teenager who appeared before the court on numerous charges including two counts of aggravated home burglary and once count of aggravated robbery.
The teenager had spent 174 of his most recent 273 – or about 64 per cent – of his most recent days in custody in unlawful solitary confinement.
Mr Johnston said extended lockdowns, which left children in their cells for up to 23 hours a day in some cases, were a thing of the past, and rejected that the practice was continuing.
"I understand that that's what's been suggested by some people," he said.
"That's an interpretation of the figures that have been provided by the Department [of Justice].
"But in the end, what we have to do is provide the opportunity for this to work well. The idea that the security of the staff is not an issue for consideration is not something that I accept."
One facility fosters 'unsettling' environment
The government has repeatedly blamed the opposition for issues in this space, pointing to the 2012 closure of the Rangeview Juvenile Remand Centre in the southern Perth suburb of Murdoch.
As President of the Children's Court both before and after the closure, Denis Reynolds said the importance of having a separate facility for juveniles on remand could not be overstated.
"Managing so many children in one facility of disparate ages and different ranges of offences was very difficult," he said.
"When you mix these remand children with the sentenced children, and you have very unsettled children relative to others who are more settled, the mix creates an unsettled environment.
"And rather than those who have just been put there rising to the bar where the others are, it just drags the others down.
"So there was a significant difference, and you could see it, and you can see it from the children when they appear before you in court as to their degree of anxiety."
Mr Reynolds hoped the government would consider further separation, with different facilities for children based on their age and gender.
It was his view that a remand centre could be established in much less time than the five years Mr Johnston said it would take.
Mr Reynolds said it was a "matter of concern" that Mr Johnston wanted to wait for local governments to come forward.
"I would've thought that if the Minister seriously and genuinely believes there should be a separate facility for remand and sentenced children, that he would be taking the lead and going out there and seeking to get the necessary arrangements and agreements," he said.
