Digging away at the modern, media-trained footballer for even the tiniest nugget of gold that may be of interest to readers can sometimes make you feel like you’re the last panner to turn up in the Yukon wielding a tennis racket.
But when the subject matter is so interesting, and the subject himself - Trevor Carson in this case - is so warm and open, the only issue is how on earth to fit an hour-long chat that whizzes by in a flash into a newspaper-friendly format.
“I should probably write a book,” Carson reflects, thankfully too late to retract anything he has already said for fear of revealing spoilers.
The goalkeeper - well, former goalkeeper now, Carson is in his first weeks of retirement after a niggling knee issue led to him aborting an intended season in a player-coach role with Queen of the South – has had a colourful career all right.
Trials with the very top teams in England and Scotland as a youth. Rejection. Run-ins with managers, from Martin O’Neill to Stephen Robinson. A gambling addiction. Cup finals. Caps for his country. A bout of deep vein thrombosis (DVT) that not only threatened his career, but his life. Sliding doors moments. A life-changing move to Celtic slipping agonisingly from his grasp. Injury. Relegation. Redemption. Carson has packed more into his time in football than most manage in a lifetime.
It is all more than he could possibly have imagined when his Granda, Kenneth, a former goalkeeper for Glentoran himself, was driving him all over Ireland and even accompanying him to England in pursuit of a professional deal.
“I couldn't speak highly enough about my Granda,” he said.
“Out of everyone, he probably took it the worst, me retiring. He’ll miss his Saturdays now, sat in front of the TV.
“He gave up a lot for me in the early days. We weren't a family that was blessed with a lot of money and my Granda put himself in a lot of perilous positions to get me to trials over in England and buy me gloves and boots.
“He drove me all around the country, down to the south of Ireland. There was actually one time where I was with the Man United School of Excellence down in Dublin. He drove me the whole way down, then we realised when we got there that I’d forgotten my boots. He drove two and a half hours back up to the North, got the boots and gloves, and brought them back down. It was no questions asked; it was just natural for him.
“He drove me and pushed me. He was my biggest critic as well, and that’s what I haven’t enjoyed over the last couple of years - he's got too nice with me. I'm really critical of myself too, but I’ve said to him over the last couple of years, 'You've gone soft, Granda.' He’ll say I’ve done alright when I know fine rightly I haven't.
“We had our fallouts along the way, but he is such an inspiration. I can never thank him enough. There’s nothing I can do to pay him back, but he’ll probably tell you those cup finals for Motherwell were payback for him."
Long before he was ever walking out at Hampden though, Carson threw himself into the savage, cut-throat world of boyhood trials with some of the most illustrious clubs in the country, eager to earn his first contract and fulfil his own dreams, yes, but also in steadfast determination not to let his Granda down.
“I sat down and counted it a couple of years ago: I had 27 different clubs I went and trialled at as a kid,” he said.
“I went to Man United as a nine-year-old on trials for the first one, and right up to 16, I had 27 different clubs in England and Scotland.
“I got to 16, which is a bit of a make-or-break age, and I had two contract offers: Everton and Sunderland. Already, I had had 25 rejections.
“You probably didn't realise it, you’re just in a bubble at the time, but I had no childhood, really; any holidays I was away on trial. I just lived and breathed football.
“To get those contract offers was incredible, but even if I’d had 20 offers, I still would have chosen Sunderland. It just had that homely feel about it. North-east people are just similar to what Northern Irish people are like - so welcoming and friendly. Kevin Ball was my academy manager. It was just a great upbringing for me.
“I read Vinnie Jones’s autobiography, and he said that Bally was the hardest man he ever faced in football. And he could be like that as a coach! But he was brilliant. I found myself using things that he told me all throughout my career.”
After a few years cutting his teeth and being hardened up to the realities of professional football under Ball’s tutelage, Carson felt ready for anything, and was eager to seize any opportunity that came his way. But nothing could prepare him for the gut-punch that he would receive from a certain Celtic legend just as he thought his big chance had arrived.
“When I got in and around the first team, Mick McCarthy was the first manager we had, and then we had that notorious thing with Niall Quinn [who was manager and chairman simultaneously] when he sacked himself, then Roy Keane came in, then Steve Bruce,” he recalled.
“My final manager was Martin O'Neill. I got on great with Martin. What a guy in terms of man-management; he could make boys feel ten feet tall on a Saturday going into a game.
“I’d had a few loan moves, and I’d been on the bench quite a lot in the Premier League. One week, we were playing Man City on the Sunday, so on the Saturday night we stayed in a hotel in Durham.
“Simon Mignolet had a bad facial injury, so he was supposed to be out for eight to twelve weeks. This was four to five weeks into this. Craig Gordon was injured too, so Keiren Westwood was the number one at the time.
“Westwood comes up to my room about 9 or 10 in the evening. You could tell he was ill. He was like, 'Trev, all the best, I’m going home.' I’m thinking, 'I’m making my Premier League debut tomorrow.'
“The goalie coach, Seamus McDonagh, comes up to the room, we sit and have a cup of tea, and he’s like, 'You’ve waited seven years for this and you’re ready.'
“I’m trying to get my family and everyone over for the game. The game is the next day at lunchtime and I’m trying to get flights to get them all over!
“I didn't sleep a wink that night. I go down for breakfast the next day and the first guy I see is Simon Mignolet in a tracksuit. Straight away I knew. I sat and had breakfast with Simon. He was like, 'Trev, I’ve no idea what’s going on, I’m assuming I’m going to be on the bench.'
“We get to the Stadium of Light, and the analysis guy calls us over and says, 'Gaffer wants to see you,' and that’s when I knew 100%. I walked into O'Neill's office, and he just put his hand out and said, 'Trev, there’s nothing I can say to you now that will not make you want to rip the head off me.' I was like, 'Gaffer, why? I’ve waited; this is the opportunity I’ve waited for.'
“I always remember what he said to me: 'I don’t think you have the stature to play in a game this big.'
“At the time we were struggling a little bit. The most frustrating thing was they went on and beat them 1-0. Ji (Dong-won) scored in the 93rd minute and Mignolet didn't have a single thing to do the whole game. That just sickened me.
“By this point, O'Neill had already offered me a year's extension on my contract, but I just went in on the Monday and said, 'Listen, I need to move for the sake of my career.'
“I’d been on loan with Bury before and I knew they were interested in taking me back, so I got a permanent move. Within two or three days, I’d gone to Bury on a permanent, three-and-a-half-year deal. I don’t regret it; I’ve gone on to play nearly 500 games in my career.
“Maybe financially I would have been better off if I had stayed about, but I don’t have any regrets. That was a real 'sliding doors' moment, mind you."
There would be another of those to come. Before that, Carson now had the task of establishing himself as a first-choice keeper in senior football. All the while though, he was battling a demon that one day, he realised, had to be faced up to head on if he was ever going to defeat it.
“I've had my issues with gambling,” he said.
“I’m 11 years off gambling now. It's hard for me because I see the signs in other players all the time in dressing rooms. I should be a bit more proactive with it in terms of reaching out to people, but it’s got to come from the person themselves.
“People did try to help me, but it wasn't until I took the bull by the horns myself and knew I was at rock bottom that I got the help. If you're only going because someone told you to, it’s not really going to work.
“I went to a Gamblers Anonymous meeting one Tuesday night, and I really was at rock bottom. My marriage had broken down, and the gambling got out of control. I walked into the room full of 20 strangers and I’ve never touched a bet since."
Even in some of the darkest moments of his life, though, Carson could find the humour.
“I was at Cheltenham Town at that time, and that was a sickener, because my dream was always to go to the Cheltenham Festival!” he laughed.
“But I gave up the gambling that November and the festival is in March. The lads got a box and went for a team day out. Now, I could probably do it and feel comfortable, but back then I wasn't strong enough. So, I never got to go to the festival.”
After a spell at Hartlepool, Carson made a decision that would alter the course of his career, and his life, as he decided to take up an offer from compatriot Stephen Robinson to join him at Fir Park. It would turn out, he says, to be one of the best decisions he ever made.
While at Motherwell, he found arguably the best form of his career, played in two cup finals, and perhaps more importantly, found a place where he felt valued. In short, a home.
“Motherwell was certainly the happiest time of my life and career,” he said.
“What a club. I'll be a supporter for life.
“And Robbo is the best coach I’ve ever worked with, the best manager. Until you actually see how good he is and how he can get the best out of boys...it’s incredible.
“He’s a master of getting the best out of what he’s got. If Robbo was manager of Man City tomorrow, of course he would play 'total football' because he's got players that can do it. But if you're at Motherwell with boys who mainly at that time had come from the lower leagues in England, you have to play to your strengths.
“He’s such a clever manager. Every player went on the pitch knowing exactly what their role was. You’d think that’s a given in football, but it’s not. I’ve worked for managers where you go into a game on a Saturday and half the boys don't know what they're doing.
“By the time we got to those cup finals against Celtic and stepped on the pitch, we genuinely believed we were going to win. It was the same for the Rangers semi-final. We didn't feel like underdogs.
“I’ve watched those highlights many a time. There were times last year when I was at Ross County in a relegation fight, sometimes you need a wee pick-me-up, and I have to remind my son that his dad was actually a decent goalie. But I didn't have a lot to do because we were just so comfortable; we just bullied them.
“Moulty [Louis Moult] was such a talisman for us, he was incredible, but I’d say the majority of that success was down to the manager, the way he had us organised and the self-belief he gave us.
“We beat them 2-0 and it was the same when we battered Aberdeen 3-0 in the Scottish Cup semi, it wasn't a shock because we expected to win. That was the way Robbo had us. He just had this really good knack where, come Saturday, you believed you were going to beat anyone.
“The Scottish Cup final especially, I just didn't see any way we weren't going to win the game.”
Alas, that confidence turned out to be misplaced, with Motherwell going down to Brendan Rodgers' all-conquering side of the era 2-0 for the second time in a cup final that season.
"It’s strange, but not very many memories stick out for me on the pitch,” Carson said.
“But I always remember that Callum McGregor goal quite early on.
“I remember just lying with my face in the grass for about 15 seconds after because it was just such a shock. I had it in my head we were going to win that game 1-0 or 2-0. To get that gut punch...
“There have been times after I left Motherwell where you play Celtic and you half expect to get beaten, but that will always stick out. It was just sickening.
“Those were great times, though.”
So good was Carson’s form, in fact, during that period that he caught the eye of the victorious manager on that afternoon at Hampden. And when his Celtic side were in need of a back-up goalkeeper to Carson’s former Sunderland teammate Gordon, Rodgers moved to bring the boyhood Rangers fan to the club.
Except, those pesky sliding doors had something else in mind again.
“I still haven't forgiven Robbo for that!” he said.
“He’ll tell you otherwise; he’ll tell me he did me a favour, and that I wouldn’t have been able to go back home anymore if I signed!
“That was a turbulent couple of days. Genuinely, the deal was done. Everything was agreed. Motherwell had agreed the fee. Freddie Woodman was coming up [to Motherwell], and I still blame Joe Lewis because he got injured that day in training for Aberdeen and then Freddie ended up there.
“The window shut on the Tuesday or Wednesday and we were playing Hibs that night. I was sat in the Turkish barbers at about midday thinking I’m going to Celtic Park to do a medical.
“Next thing I get a call off Alan Burrows saying, 'You need to come into the ground’. Burrows, Robinson and I were in the office and Robbo was like, 'I’m resigning if you sell him, because it's too late for us to get a replacement.' No disrespect to Russ Griffiths, who was the number two at the time, but Robbo was just like, 'We can't afford to go with just Russ.'
“The mad thing is that I ended up playing that night and Scott Bain was on the bench for Hibs. He had been on loan from Dundee to Hibs. Then after the game it was him that got the taxi over to Celtic Park and signed the deal.
“Brendan Rodgers rang me the next day. We had a good chat. He spoke to me for about 45 minutes. He was amazing; he said, 'Listen, I’d have loved for this to happen’, but that's the way football works. Scott Bain ended up getting the opportunity, did really well, and ended up staying there for six or seven years.
“Everything happens for a reason, though I haven’t quite worked out the reason for that one yet! But I have no hard feelings toward Alan Burrows and Stephen Robinson. When I retired, they were two of the first to pick up the phone. I still have a great relationship with both of them.”
Rodgers too, it seems, never forgot how close Carson came to playing for him.
"He texted me when I retired two or three weeks ago,” he said.
“He was one of the first to text. I was blown away. It speaks volumes about the guy; there was absolutely no need to text me. I haven't had a lot of dealings with the man, but he's clearly just a really sound guy."
At the time, Carson could have been forgiven for thinking that things couldn’t get any worse. But his disappointment at missing out on a life-changing contract was put into perspective when his life itself then came under threat.
It started out as a niggle in his arm on the morning of a Motherwell game at Ibrox, which gradually got worse as he spent the next week on international duty with Northern Ireland.
After his mum had nagged him into going to Wishaw General Hospital upon his return to Scotland, doctors told Carson they were ’90 percent certain’ that he had cancer. It was therefore a case of thanking the heavens for small mercies when tests revealed it was ‘only’ DVT, with clots in his shoulder and his lung.
Placed on a course of blood-thinning tablets, his season was over, with doctors fearing that any significant contact could prove fatal. The six months he spent on the sidelines though were only part of the battle, with the psychological hurdles he faced both during his recovery and upon his return to action proving difficult to overcome.
“It was a tough time mentally,” he said.
“I have no embarrassment in saying I had to go and speak to professionals. I just wasn't in a good place.
“In my first training session back, I took a mini panic attack on the pitch. I don't think I’d dealt with the clot. It was a strange thing to be out with because you felt 100% fit, but you weren't allowed to do anything because of the danger of a bleed. After two weeks of being diagnosed, I felt I could be back.
“I probably didn't deal with it properly. My first training session back, I just couldn't speak. I was trying to give information during a small-sided game and couldn't get the words out. I was trying to get Craig Hinchliffe's attention, the goalie coach, just to get me off the pitch.
“Motherwell being the great club it is, they sent me down to Manchester to see the number one blood specialist in the UK and he did all the tests just to put my mind at ease that it was a one-off, and that it wasn’t going to happen again.
“If I could say anything to younger players now, it would be to speak to someone if you are having issues. When I went and spoke to a therapist that Motherwell had organised, she was amazing. You train every part of your body except probably the most important to a footballer - your brain.
“For me, it was a massive help just speaking about things you wouldn't talk to your missus or your mates about. Offloading to a total stranger was the help I needed.”
To make matters worse for Carson, a proposed move to Cardiff had also fallen through, so when he was struck down by the clot, Motherwell had already recruited another number one in Mark Gillespie.
“I was actually down in Newcastle having a coffee with Mark the other day,” he said.
“What a good lad. But I used to come in after every game and say to him, 'You're ruining my career!’”
Upon his recovery, the two would trade the jersey before Gillespie won a move to St James’s Park, but just as it looked as though Dame Fortune had finally smiled upon him, disaster struck again.
“I came back too early from a knee injury,” he said.
“I played on Boxing Day against Dundee United through necessity because Jordan Archer was in on loan and had an injury.
“I wasn't ready; I’d only done a couple of sessions on the bike. I was probably four weeks post-surgery. Robbo rang me on Christmas Eve or the day before and said, 'I need you to play.' Davie Henderson, the physio, was like, 'He’s not playing, he’s not ready. It's an eight-to-twelve-week injury.' But as soon as I knew there was a chance to play, I was playing.
“We played Dundee United and I got through it fine, I felt ok. Then we played Killie three days later. I think we lost 2-0. In the second half, I came to take a cross, landed, and my knee just shattered.
“Then after that game, Deccy Gallagher and I had heard murmurs that Robbo had resigned. We tried to get into his office to talk him around and he just said, 'Lads, not now, it’s not the time.'
“We didn't even get a chance.”
That wouldn’t be the last time that Carson’s and Robinson’s paths would cross though, with the pair linking up again at St Mirren and Morecambe. And as close as they are, they would have a difference of opinion once more when working together at Saints - to put it mildly - that led to a parting of the ways.
The rumour mill went into overdrive, with stories of Carson taking umbrage at being left out of a dead rubber end-of-season fixture against Rangers, but he says it was something of a storm in a teacup, and that he now wishes things had worked out differently.
"Me and Robbo had fallouts every single week,” he said.
“But the only thing with this one was the timing - it was the end of the season, and we went our separate ways. We didn't have that Monday to come in and have a laugh.
“It steamrolled unnecessarily on both parts, more so mine. Then I signed for Dundee and it was a real nasty return when I came back.
"It hurt. I remember I was devastated at that time because there were even a couple of fans after the game who were trying to get at me. I'm a big softy inside. Like anyone else, you love all the praise, but whenever you get abuse...I’ve never had that from any other fan base. It gave me a real sickly feeling. No one enjoys it.
“I certainly didn't expect a standing ovation when I came back, but on the flip side, I didn't expect that. When we played them at home, I didn't let the missus and kids go because I didn't want them to hear some of the abuse I was taking.
“But I loved my year at St Mirren; it was fantastic. I love seeing them doing well. I loved my time there. I just wish I came to Scotland 10 years earlier. I’ve loved every moment up here.”
Some of the happiest of those moments were spent at Dundee, where he got a measure of satisfaction after a difficult spell across the road at Tannadice by helping the Dee to a couple of memorable derby wins.
“We beat them 1-0 in the cup, and that was a great night,” he said.
“One of the highlights of my time at Dundee. Another great club. I’d say that and the 4-2 at Tannadice were the games that stuck out. That was massive because it was the end of the season and that made us safe. I had a great relationship with Tony Docherty as well.
“The worst thing about this now is my missus, I can't get her to move! She absolutely loves it. She’s got a teaching job up here, my son's settled in school. We just love it."
That was why Carson recently turned down a coaching opportunity in England, but now in possession of his ‘A’ licence, he has his sights on passing on the wisdom from a remarkable career to the next generation, perhaps even as a manager.
Whether that will allow him to empathise with the position of his close friend Robinson in some of their barneys over the years, remains to be seen.
“Ha, we’ll see about that!” he said.
“But I have no real regrets. As a kid growing up, if someone said to me I'd make one professional appearance, I would have took your hand off.
“My only frustration is not taking it in as much. I don't have a great recollection of games or moments. When you're in the moment, you don't take it in as much.
“I’m at peace with retiring; I haven't had any urge to get back or any regret. When you’re in it, it’s the best job in the world. On the pitch, I’ve had what my missus hates me saying - I've had a bit of a journeyman career - but I would have took that as a kid.
“Eight caps for my country was the biggest honour. Some incredible moments, with Motherwell especially.
“You can't live with regrets. I'm content."
