Great food and flavors should open up our minds to different cultures and parts of the world, even when we're cooking at home. Chef Kristen Kish explained on "Salon Talks" how having a willingness to get out and explore what actually makes your food taste good became a driving force behind her new National Geographic show, "Restaurants at the End of the World."
Many know Kish as the first woman of color to win Bravo's "Top Chef," the chef/partner of the Arlo Grey restaurant in Austin and host of "36 Hours" on the Travel Channel. In "Restaurants at the End of the World," Kish travels to Maine, Panama, Brazil and Norway in search of cooks that are as fascinating as the ingredients that grow there. Kish discovers how food can grow in places you won't believe, like in the middle of the sea, tucked away in body parts of exotic animals or growing on the side of mountains.
"The food, of course, is delicious, and there's a great story behind it," Kish said of her time filming the show. " For me, the most interesting part and the most impressive part is meeting and hanging out with these people and just understanding who they are." As she reflected on the entire experience, Kish says she sees food in a whole different light.
Watch my "Salon Talks" episode with Kristen Kish here, or read a Q&A of our conversation below to learn more how working on the show changed her cooking style and food philosophy forever.
The following interview has been lightly edited for clarity and length.
How did you make it to "Restaurants at the End of the World?"
There's a journey involved. Our amazing creative department wanted the journey to start when I got off the airplane. It was meant to have this long trek in order to get somewhere. When a show title is "Restaurants at the End of the World," you can only assume that it takes a little bit of time to get there. the team found these magical places that were worth exploring, and most of them took two or three flights, and/or a boat ride to get me all the way to this place. It was a trek, but it's definitely a journey.
You have worked in some pretty difficult kitchens and you've said that those experiences have made you a better chef. What's a difficult kitchen?
"I have changed as a chef simply because I have to think more about other things than just the food."
Well, how much time do we have? There's so many different kinds of kitchens and styles of kitchens, and so I think what may be difficult for me could be something really easy for somebody else. You have to find the right spot for you and how you like to learn and how you like to work. So for me, it was a bit difficult. There were challenges being a woman in the kitchen coming up during the time I was. Had some challenges. Mostly, from all those different challenges and difficulties, I definitely learned what I didn't want. I was able to weed out the things that weren't working to help me narrow in on what I actually wanted.
I like places where people scream, "Where's the cilantro?! Where's the cilantro?!" That's the kind of kitchen I would want to be in.
See, I don't like that. There's people that thrive in that. Truly, there's people that need that kind of feedback in order to feel like they're learning something. I'm not that kind of chef and I personally will shut down. The second anything goes above a decibel that my ear can't handle, I shut down and I'd probably leave.
You go to the next level in your show. You're climbing mountains and you're deep sea diving. Has that always been a part of who you are or did you have to develop into this super chef?
It's definitely not on the things of must-haves when you're trying to be a chef by any means. But I think for me, when traveling comes about, I do like to explore. I'm very curious. I like a little bit of adventure. My risk assessment has definitely changed just as I've gotten older. I'm a little bit less inclined to do the more dangerous things, but having National Geographic setting things up and making sure I'm safe, and having a safety net both literally and figuratively, really helps me dive in, pun intended, without too much fear. I'm set up for success in all the right ways. So with all that, all those different layers of preparation, I feel eager to do these adventurous things.
Does it make the food more meaningful?
For me, it tastes better, or I'm more eager to try something that had all that effort or something behind it.
You eat some really delicious-looking food on the show and also have conversations with some fascinating people. What are some of the most memorable moments for you?
"Conflict is inevitable, whether you're in a kitchen or not."
I think a lot of the memorable moments for me lie in the people, less about the food. The food, of course, is delicious, and there's a great story behind it and it takes effort to get there, but for me, the most interesting part and the most impressive part are meeting and hanging out with these people and just understanding who they are, where they came from, and how they're actually developing these restaurants cut off from the supply chains. I think the people are the most interesting portion of all this. Just hearing a different perspective, whether we see eye to eye on it or we don't. I mean, that doesn't really matter, it's just being able to experience someone else's life with them.
The why people do things always makes it that much more interesting. You got the chance to hang out in polar bear territory, but was there anything that was so wild that the producers asked you to do and you're like, "Okay, no, I'm not jumping out of the airplane."
For these first episodes, there was nothing that they asked that I was like, "I don't know." I will say one of the things that bothers me a lot are mosquitoes.
What's their purpose? Do they have a purpose?
I don't know. Just to annoy humans and leave giant welts on people's bodies. So when they're like, "Let's go hiking in the jungle," that for me is more terrifying than, "Hey, let's go diving where that polar bear just was spotted." So the mosquitoes for me, biggest challenge.
How have you changed since going on these trips and these adventures?
I'd like to think that I'm a relatively empathetic human being and that I have a drive and curiosity for other people. I'd say that this is just solidifying that and really grounding it in the fact that I do really enjoy walking in the shoes of somebody else and learning something new in the process. Because what better way to learn about a place, someone's history, someone's culture, their likes, their dislikes, than to do it right there with them? To be able to have the great fortune of being able to do that by way of food, in something that I am incredibly passionate about, I think there's no greater combination of human storytelling and great food.
As a viewer, I felt like you knew some of the people forever.
"I don't necessarily need you to cook like me. I'd rather you take the base and outline of something that I love and know very well, and then start messing with it."
When we start filming, I'm there in every city for roughly, it's about a 10-day period, so that includes a little bit of travel on both ends. But I'm filming with them six days a week, I have a day off, and mostly I hang out with them. So the adventure doesn't stop. Being able to build that rapport and that friendship truly only aids us in becoming better on camera together and helping them tell their stories. If the camera turns off, then the adventure definitely does not stop. They keep taking me around.
We know Anthony Bourdain was trained in the kitchen, and over the years his show created a whole lane for him in his career. Do you feel like your identity as a chef has changed since the taping of the show?
Sure. Television was never my goal. It just kind of happened and things started rolling. It started with "Top Chef" and going on competing and then things just started to happen. And so we have icons and true curators and creators of food and travel space like Anthony Bourdain and someone to look up to. I mean, he's just absolutely phenomenal. Absolutely phenomenal.
But I think I have changed as a chef simply because I have to think more about other things than just the food. When you're out there, like I'm saying, we're dealing with food, and food is a vehicle to help tell a story, but really we're creating a relationship with another human being. And I think that already takes you out of the kitchen and exercises a lot of different skills that you tap into. Because, not for nothing, when you're stuck in a kitchen and you're cooking day in, day out, seven days a week with no days off, human interaction is with your coworkers. And the idea of being able to adventure out and learn about people is a little less frequent.
How do chefs deal with conflict with those relationships? Every chef has a different philosophy.
Every single person is different. No matter what kind of kitchen you land in or what kind of team you're working with, everyone's bringing their own flavor and their own personality to their environment. You got to find the people that you want to be around, that you're fueled and it's like the same kind of matching energy. Conflict is inevitable, whether you're in a kitchen or not in a kitchen, or whether you're a chef and you're not a chef, but I think it's about having constructive conflict and understanding that everyone can have a different point of view and opinion and that's okay as long as we respect the other side.
If we all agreed in this world, to some extent, there'd be less dynamic conversations in the world. But also on the other side, if we were able to actually talk about differences in a less divisive way, we'd actually get more accomplished. You got to find that middle ground. But I don't need to be surrounded by people that all agree with what I have to say and that's okay as long as they respect what I have to say.
I'm not a chef, but I am a snob when it comes to egg sandwiches and how I make my crab cakes because I'm from Baltimore. If you don't have your own crab cake recipe, they won't call you a Baltimorian.
There are certain dishes that you just don't mess with, whether that's generational or in your family or if it's something you've developed on your own that you feel very proud of. I love trying those dishes because there's so much personality and storytelling and depth in those things. We could probably share a crab cake and talk eight hours about why you do what you do and why you love your version of the crab cake, and then we can go and taste another one.
I won't let you jump in the harbor to get it 'cause the water is kind of funky.
I would do it for you!
What's your one dish that you don't want anyone to mess with?
I think coming from a perspective of a professional chef and having recipes, I develop recipes that are meant to be played with. I don't necessarily need you to cook like me. I'd rather you take the base and outline of something that I love and know very well, and then start messing with it and make it your own. Because food is, everything has already been done before.
Most techniques have already been done before, but what hasn't been done is imparting your story in something maybe that I created or me imparting my story in something you created. Then we're creating something completely different. That's the beauty of food, it can bring and merge all these different kinds of people together.
Beyond entertainment, do you have any goals for viewers of your show? Do you want us to be more experimental with what we eat and where we go?
"There were challenges being a woman in the kitchen coming up during the time I was."
I think the beauty of "Restaurants at the End of the World" is the fact that it is restaurants at the end of the world, and I am a chef and we are dealing with people that are cooking food for people. Really all intertwined and weaved through that story is just seeing how someone else does what they do. And I feel like whatever you can take away from it, whether that be a human thing or whether it inspires you to get more creative in the kitchen, or whether that inspires you to go diving with polar bears, whatever you want to take from it, I hope that someone can find something in it because I believe that there is something for everybody in this show.
Like feeding sac cocktails. What is that?
Ptarmigan is an arctic grouse that has this feeding bag in its throat. Over the summertime, they'll pick berries and little things off the fauna, and all the things, save it, and if they can't find food during the winter, they'll regurgitate it and then swallow it for survival. You got to do what you got to do to survive. The chef decided to take that, because he didn't waste any part of the animal, and infuse it in a gin and then make a cocktail out of it. I am all for using all parts of the animal, but I was like, "Do we have to this?" And for him, it was a yes.
I'm guessing that won't make it to Arlo Grey.
I personally did not like the flavor, however, I was impressed by the innovation and creativity.
Are any of these new recipes or experiences going to make it back to your restaurant?
I don't think in terms of an actual dish on my menu, but you will see it because, as a chef, when you are changed as a person, you cook differently. And I think it will evolve and things will kind of come about as time goes on. Maybe it won't be as obvious to me or the diner, but certainly being changed as a human definitely does change you and how you decide to cook.
