A Post Office investigator has denied he and his colleagues "behaved like Mafia gangsters" who were looking to collect "bounty with the threats and lies" from subpostmasters.
Stephen Bradshaw, a veteran Post Office employee, has been accused of bullying branch managers as he mounted investigations into allegations of missing money from the accounts.
The criminal cases were based on evidence from the faulty Horizon IT system, and led to one of Britain's worst ever miscarriages of justice.
Giving evidence to a public inquiry into the scandal on Thursday, Mr Bradshaw continued to insist his investigations had been "professional" and he claimed problems with Horizon had never been passed on to investigators like him.
Mr Bradshaw was involved in the criminal investigation of nine subpostmasters, including Lisa Brennan, a former counter clerk at a post office in Huyton, near Liverpool, who was falsely accused of stealing £3,000 in 2003.
Mr Bradshaw has also been accused by fellow Merseyside subpostmistress Rita Threlfall of asking her for the colour of her eyes and what jewellery she wore before saying: "Good, so we've got a description of you for when they come", during her interview under caution in August 2010.
Another subpostmistress, Jacqueline McDonald, claimed she was "bullied" by Mr Bradshaw during an investigation into her alleged £50,000 shortfall.
Responding to Ms McDonald's claims in his statement, the witness said: "I refute the allegation that I am a liar.
"I also refute the claim that Jacqueline McDonald was bullied, from the moment we arrived, the auditor was already on site, conversations were initially (held) with Mr McDonald, the reason for our attendance was explained, Mr and Mrs McDonald were kept updated as the day progressed."
The investigator added: "Ms Jacqueline McDonald is also incorrect in stating Post Office investigators behaved like Mafia gangsters looking to collect their bounty with the threats and lies."
Presented with a comment in an interview when he told Ms Brennan that she should "get up earlier", Mr Bradshaw said: "I apologise if you don't like that sort of terminology, it wasn't meant to be detrimental towards her."
Counsel to the inquiry Julian Blake highlighted an interview with Mrs McDonald when Mr Bradshaw accused her of "telling a pack of lies".
He compared the language to a "1970s television detective show", but Mr Bradshaw defended his conduct, saying the interview was not intended to be "nice".
He added that Mrs McDonald's legal team at trial had not argued the interview was "oppressive or aggressive".
Mr Bradshaw, a Post Office employee since 1978, called himself not "technically minded" and insisted he “wasn’t told” about problems with the Horizon IT system.
He also insisted there were “no concerns” about the quality of his investigations.
“It would appear we were not being given any knowledge, top down, on bugs and defects”, he said. “It was not cascaded down from Fujitsu, the Post Office board, down to our level as the investigation manager.
“I had no reason to suspect at the time that there was anything wrong with the Horizon system because we had not been told.”
Mr Bradshaw was shown an email he sent to a colleague in 2010 with links to early reporting on the scandal, but he insisted again: “I wasn’t told about any issue with the Horizon system.”
In his witness statement, Mr Bradshaw said for each of the nine criminal investigations he was involved in: “There were no concerns, the investigation was conducted in a professional manner at all times.”
He was shown reports from subpostmasters accusing him of being "confrontational", making alleged threats, and in one case pressuring a man into letting his home be searched.
Asked if, having seen the accusation, he "may not have been quite as professional as you think", Mr Bradshaw replied: "No. My stance is they are taken out of context."
Mr Bradshaw was warned before his evidence began that he has the right to not incriminate himself when answering questions.
He told the Inquiry he now “regrets” signing witness statements for criminal proceedings which had actually been drafted by lawyers, and which insisted there were no issues with the Horizon system.
He joined the investigations team in 2000, and has been employed by Post Office for the last 45 years.
Ex-Post Office investigators have told the Inquiry that bonuses were offered for successful prosecutions and money being seized from subpostmasters.
Mr Bradshaw told today's hearing that he received bonuses, but denied they were linked to the number of cases he took on.
In a 2010 self-appraisal, he told his bosses that he had personally intervened in Mrs McDonald's criminal case when the integrity of the Horizon system was being questioned.
"I challenged the recommendation of the barrister and persuaded him that a trial would be necessary as the reason given by the defendant (Horizon integrity) would have a wider impact on the business if a trial didn't go ahead". he wrote.
In evidence today, Mr Bradshaw characterised the self-appraisal as a "flamboyant way of explaining what happened on the day".
"At the time it wasn't proven as far as I can recall that Horizon was so faulty", he said. "I wouldn't write it like that now, but it's a self-appraisal for the way a business wanted it done."
Under questioning from the Inquiry chair, Mr Bradshaw admitted it was “probably not” acceptable for the Post Officer to say it would only accept a guilty plea from a subpostmaster if they stated that they did not “blame Horizon”.
In the prosecution of Katherine Jane McQue in 2011, she was given an “indication” that a guilty plea to fraud was acceptable “so long as the defendant stipulated in her basis of plea that there was nothing wrong with Horizon”.
Mr Blake asked: “Do you think it’s appropriate for the Post Office to say to a defendant that we might accept the second count on the indictment as long as the defendant, in their basis of plea, recognises that there’s nothing wrong with Horizon?”
When Mr Bradshaw struggled to answer, Chairman Sir Wyn Williams interjected: “Just answer Mr Blake’s question.”
Mr Bradshaw responded: “I’m trying to Mr Williams.”
The chairman continued: “But it’s a simple question, is it appropriate for someone representing the Post Office to say ‘we will accept your plea, but only if you don’t blame Horizon?'”
After a short hesitation, Mr Bradshaw said: “Probably not.”
He was questioned over whether his department were "drenched" in information about Horizon not working from "hundreds and hundreds" of subpostmasters.
Edward Henry KC, who represents subpostmistress Janet Skinner among others, said: "Mr Bradshaw, contrary to what you say, you and your department, the security department, were drenched in information that Horizon wasn't working from the very beginning."
Mr Bradshaw replied: "The information came through, yes."
Mr Henry continued: "That information came from scores and scores, and ultimately hundreds and hundreds, of innocent subpostmasters who were suffering an epidemic of shortfalls."
Mr Bradshaw said: "Yes."
Mr Bradshaw’s grilling comes a day after Prime Minister Rishi Sunak announced new legislation designed to exonerate Post Office branch managers who were convicted in the Horizon IT scandal.
He told the House of Commons: “This is one of the greatest miscarriages of justice in our nation’s history”, and has committed £1 billion for payouts to affected subpostmasters and their families.
The Government has already paid around £138 million to more than 2,700 claimants to three Post Office compensation schemes.
“People who worked hard to serve their communities had their lives and their reputations destroyed through absolutely no fault of their own”, said Mr Sunak. “The victims must get justice and compensation.”
In 2019, a High Court judge ruled the Horizon IT system contained “bugs, errors and defects” and there was a “material risk” that shortfalls in Post Office branch accounts were caused by the system.
The Public Inquiry, led by retired judge Sir Wyn Williams, was first established in September 2020 and held hearings in 2022 on the human impact on subpostmasters who were investigated and prosecuted by the Post Office. But public and media interest in the scandal has been supercharged by ITV’s drama, Mr Bates v The Post Office.
Justice Secretary Alex Chalk admitted on Thursday morning that the scandal will cost taxpayers “a fortune” and said if Fujitsu, which designed the Horizon system, is found at fault in the Inquiry the firm “should face the consequences”.
Employees and former employees of Fujitsu are due to give evidence to the Inquiry next week.
