George, 48, Durham
Occupation Actuary
Voting record Has lived in New Zealand for the past 16 years. Always votes centre right
Amuse bouche Has been an amateur rugby referee for 10 years
Fiona, 54, Newcastle upon Tyne
Occupation Works in tertiary education
Voting record Always Labour, but is considering voting Green next time
Amuse bouche As a teenager in Ireland, she was part of a medieval consort ensemble playing music from the 12th to the 17th centuries, and appeared on The Late Late Show
For starters
Fiona He was friendly. I suppose he looked reasonably conservative.
George We got chatting straight away. She was really good company, easy conversation, warm personality.
Fiona He was very open-minded, and said: “There’s nothing here I don’t eat, so why don’t you choose?” We had winter veg gratin dauphinois, a nice brochette de poisson and tartiflette.
The big beef
George I’m very sceptical about net zero: a lot of responses we’re dealing with are based on modelling. You just have to see how many errors we had with Covid modelling, and that’s child’s play compared with the climate. I’ve got so little confidence in terms of what they’re coming out with, and yet we’re asked to provide a response that is going to cost us hundreds of trillions of pounds. I can’t imagine why you would make such enormous policy decisions on something that’s so uncertain.
Fiona Essentially, thinking about my children, net zero would be the main thing for their future. I’m convinced of the global boiling that’s going on and the impending climate crisis. I’ve kept abreast of scientific reports, ice-core analysis, the rate of change in the mean surface temperature. Governments need to step up and try to reduce the devastating impacts.
George Her position was: this is impending doom, it’s catastrophic, we’ve got to do something now. She genuinely seemed quite stressed about the whole climate issue. I think that’s a great shame, to be that worried about an issue that’s so uncertain.
Fiona I don’t think he’s a climate change denier. But he said, “If Greta Thunberg was in charge, I’d be really worried.” I was thinking, “I’d probably be quite happy.” I don’t know enough about modelling to counter his points, I just had to say, from the empirical evidence that’s already been gathered, I’m convinced.
Sharing plate
George She was really surprised that I came out supporting a wealth tax. My thinking around this is that it would remove the need to tax income. Tax is designed to impact behaviour: that’s why it’s on sugar, and cigarettes. If we think about income, we want people to put their labour to use in society. Why would we want to disincentivise the one thing that we really want people to be doing, which is working and contributing to society?
Fiona I firmly believe that reducing inequality is the main responsibility of the state. I would say George is probably more of an economic libertarian, more of a sceptic in terms of trusting governments. I probably shifted a little bit on this: I hadn’t thought about wealth taxes. I think tax both, frankly.
For afters
George The common ground was that we both highly valued education and thought that nobody should be shut out on the basis of finance or social status. Where there was difference was that she wanted to see more people forced through school, staying on till they’re 18, preferably to degree level. But I think a diet of GCSE, A-level and degree is not for everyone. We need different pathways to a system that caters to a wider array of needs.
Fiona He made a point that I thought was interesting: that we need to increase the value society places on non-traditional education. I agree with that, but I don’t agree that tertiary education has grown too much since the 90s. Education is never wasted: it’s a vehicle to a more cohesive society. If you restrict access to education, then you reduce social mobility
Takeaways
George It was convivial. They weren’t wildly dissimilar conversations to the ones I have with my own family.
Fiona He’s a good bit further to the right than me, but it was interesting to hear him explain the basis for his views, and I found it quite useful to articulate the basis for mine.
Additional reporting: Kitty Drake
• Fiona and George ate at The French Quarter in Newcastle upon Tyne
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