But yes, it’s hard not to think that, this time next week, we’ll be coming towards the end of an Argentina v France final. Or not! Thanks all for your company and comments – ta-ra!
We’re getting to the end of this blog now, so let’s throw it forward to the semis. I’d not be shocked to see Croatia pilfer a goal against Argentina, or schlep them to penalties, but I think France will have too much for Morocco because Varane and Upamecano will make it very difficult for Morocco to score. Obviously France v Argentina looks the likely final and that’d be jam-packed with narrative: the holders looking to retain their title v Messi looked to cap his career. But picking winners in this competition feels like a fool’s errand.
Absolutely tremendous “you know”ing here from Luke Shaw. The subtitles are such a great wrinkle.
🗣️ “We have nice duels when we play against each other.”
— Manchester United (@ManUtd) December 10, 2022
📽️ Find out which attacker @LukeShaw23 enjoys testing himself against in training in the latest episode of @TeamViewer Diaries...#MUFC || #BringingYouCloser
Back to the WSL, Villa lead third-placed Arsenal 1-0 after 27 minutes; leaders Chelsea then take on Reading in the late game.
“Hmm,” begins Scott Blair. “I couldn’t watch the game live as it turned out, but saw the highlights such as they were. Foden hardly got a mention. And when I caught up with the full match, it didn’t seem to be all that different. Everyone (everyone) was raving about him beforehand – and he’s a fine player – but was it an off night? Or is he not quite what folk think he is?”
The first time I saw Foden it was playing for an age-group side, and I immediately messaged the lads I go Man United with, saying “problem”. I’ve not seen anything to change my mind since then, much as I wish I had – he’s a brilliant player and will get even better. His contribution last night, I think, was in his positioning, which helped England get the squeeze on France – though I’d have taken him off after an hour to try Rashford, who is a brilliant sub and has the ability to make things happen.
“As a proud Hoosier,” returns Joe Pearson, “I don’t have much of an opinion on Southgate, although I do think Berhalter should get the axe. “Oh, and on your recommendation, I have started reading The Wind-Up Bird Chronicle. Does Murakami always write about cats?”
This is great news, enjoy! Cats, and also ears.
I agree with David Hytner here too – and might add that most players pass through an entire career without making an error so cataclysmic. You’ve got to credit Kane for putting himself in harm’s way, but he’ll know better than any of us, he let the situation get to him. If you look at his body-position as he takes the penalty, he’s almost crouching, rather than standing tall, and the head going up and back is a classic sign of nerves. Just ask Michael Platini about his penalty in the 1986 France v Brazil quarter-final shoot-out, or Roberto Baggio and Franco Baresi about the 1994 World Cup final – players far greater than Kane who buckled under the pressure.
I’ve criticised Southgate a fair bit over the last few years – he made big errors against Croatia in 2018 and more generally in 2021, when he was, I think, unduly cautious. But Jacob is spot-on here, I think, because he’s made big strides these last few weeks.
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“The question here is how do England get better?” asks Shaun Lawson. “That was the unluckiest defeat I’ve ever seen us experience at a major tournament, and I go back as far as Euro 88. But the thing is: we’ve still not quite resolved the back four/back three debate (it didn’t work in the first half - we were way too deep for the first half-hour or so), the central defence isn’t *quite* good enough, we’re maybe one central midfielder short against the very best, and up front? We are wasting Phil Foden. Completely wasting him.
When you think about it, none of the semi-finalists seem to have any doubts over their tactical setups. We still do, even though we’re clearly improving. And I agree with you fully about the lack of chances created. I think Southgate should’ve brought Rashford on earlier; but the conundrum for me is Foden. He’s exactly the kind of player who, utilised correctly, turns very good sides into tournament-winning ones. But he’s so peripheral so often. I love Southgate to bits and want him to stay - but I’m not sure he knows how to get the best out of players like him? See also, Maddison, whose treatment throughout the tournament was plain weird, and really the only thing I’d really criticise Gareth for. Why he wasn’t brought on against Wales and/or Senegal, I can’t fathom.
Historically, England have wasted so many terrific creative players – Hoddle, Barnes and Scholes spring to mind. The Foden dilemma is heading in the same direction. There must be a way of prioritising both him and Bellingham; not just the latter, surely?”
On Maddison, he went because squad-sized was increased from 24 to 26; Southgate had been clear he preferred the former. As for Foden, I thought he was instrumental in England’s improved second-half display, pressing and helping them to win the ball high up the park. I can’t say I’ve always trusted Southgate to get the most of his attackers because he’s never managed a side with riches of this ilk. I do, though, think he’s improving, even if yesterday, I didn’t think his side attacked as cohesively as they should’ve done – they struggled to create chances and did, I think, often have too few men attacking the box when the ball came into it. Perhaps they need to find an attacking coach with particular expertise in that area.
“The first rule in football is not to concede,” reckons Krishna Moorthy, “and Morocco are the only team that seems to have understood this. I really want them to win not out of any romantic reasons but for purely football reasons.”
I’m not sure it’s necessarily the first rule – it’s possible to outscore the opposition – but I agree that Morocco have defended superbly, with just one (own) goal conceded against Canada. Or, put another way, they’ve shut out Croatia, Belgium, Spain and Portugal, which is a seriously phenomenal performance.
I daresay there’s disappointment in Brazil too.I fancied them both for this competition and 2018 because they looked to me like the most settled side. In 2018, they ran into a near-perfect performance from Belgium’s golden generation, but they’ve no excuses for losing to Croatia.
“I am 46 and I have never, ever seen any other English team play half as good as this England did,” emails Luciano from Brazil. “To be honest with you guys, England always looked like a bad joke to me in all the previous World Cups I had the chance to watch. I was never able to understand how on earth you guys could hail players like Lampard, Terry, etc, let alone call them a “golden generation”. BUT this team, oh man, this is a completely different story. These guys can play, they can attack, they like doing it, they are born to it, it is actually great to watch. They could have won yesterday and they kinda deserved to if you ask me. Your coach seems to be OK, much better than all those expensive fools like Capello that you used to hire in the past. Hopefully he can keep it up. I was rooting for England yesterday and I will keep doing so at Euro 2024. I think you guys are centimetres away from having a great time watching Jude, Foden and Saka becoming champions for England.”
If this England side had any two of the Golden Generation’s centre-backs – Terry, Ferdinand, King, Campbell – or Carragher – there’s a strong chance they’d have beaten France, and Lampard instead of Henderson would also have given them a better shot. But oI agree, they’re getting there.
“That cat adoption story may seem like a nice fuzzy happy little footnote,” says Robert Heath, “but the reality is that it shines a little light on yet another very unsavoury aspect of Qatar. I lived there for three years and as an animal lover I was appalled at the number of abandoned animals everywhere around Doha. These are mostly cats and dogs, and very often the magnificent Saluki breed of hunting dog. It is not just the rights of ‘lesser’ humans (as they see it) that many Qataris have no respect for. Salukis are bred to work during their hunting trips in the desert (very often involving shooting or capturing endangered falcons), and if they don’t come up to scratch they are unceremoniously dumped.”
“On the discussion regarding France’s first goal, which is likely to last for three and a bit years/the duration of Pickford’s career,” begins Neil Mackie. “Being unsighted is fine and understandable but his footwork led to him not being able to explode to his right and get to the shot, well-placed and as quick as it was. You can see Pickford’s right foot makes a couple of movements, both of which seem to bring it closer to his left foot rather than going out to the right and widening his base. This then leads to him being imbalanced and unable to push off and out from that lead leg. I’m part of the goalkeeper’s union and so I’m unsurprised that many people miss this (TV punditry and commentary regarding keeping is woeful) so that leads on to the ‘hur hur small arms’ takes on several internet disgraces. Just my tuppence worth on that.”
Yeah, I wondered about this at the time; just a step to his right when it looks like the ball’s going in that direction, and I think he collapses the leg and saves it.
“Great” is strong, I’d say, but I agree with the sentiment that progress has been made.
I enjoyed this.
But is it just me who calls him Tony Rocky Horror?
Griezmann has had a good tournament so far, it’s true.
“I have to say I don’t agree with you at all regarding the vilification of some members of the Argentina team,” says Joe Sampson. “For your first reaction to a moment of pure joy to be to revel in the desolation of your vanquished opponent shows a real lack of humanity. I found it really unpleasant, to be honest.”
There’s no humanity in schadenfreude? I couldn’t agree less. But also, had the Holland players acted with dignity and class through the shoot-out, fair enough, but they didn’t, and I’m not remotely surprised that when Argentina went through, they reminded their opponents of their behaviour through the previous 10 minutes. While they were perpetrating it, the Netherlands will have known how things would go were they to lose, they just took the chance that they wouldn’t.
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And here’s Suzy Wrack’s match report.
Honours even in the WSL Manchester derby…
Hi again and thanks Michael.
Going to hand back to Daniel Harris now. Enjoy the rest of your day.
HE’S COMING HOME, etc.
The Golden Boot is looking like a straight shootout between Kylian Mbappé (5), Olivier Giroud (4) and Lionel Messi (4). There are no other players left in the tournament that have more than two goals, so seems very unlikely that the winner will not be someone in that trio. For a deep dive on this subject, check our very snazzy interactive.
“I know it’s not over yet, but how do you think this World Cup might influence club football? I’ve not noticed any significant new tactical ideas, though perhaps we might see a bit more imagination on free kicks after what was possibly to moment of the tournament by the Dutch. Other than that, I wonder if it will embolden referees to add a more realistic amount of time for stoppages in regular games.”
I think the last point is a good one. Ten minutes of stoppage time has not been unusual in this World Cup, so it would be now odd to return to the Premier League and see just a couple of minutes added on for the Boxing Day fixtures back here in the UK. Not many can complain about more time being added and if it’s good enough for the World Cup, it’s good enough for Brentford v Tottenham.
In terms of tactical ideas, it’s not a new one but I think we can all agree that the Dutch proved that Total Football is dead. Long live Route One. Get it launched!
Thought Henderson really grew into the game against France. Gave the ball away cheaply a few times in the first half but gave France a real problem with his positioning, often moonlighting as a second right winger. It meant Walker could stay back and keep Mbappé quiet, and gave support/options to Saka, helping him to be England’s best player on the night. Southgate deserves as much credit as Henderson for that tactical tweak, in my book. And this is not exactly a surprise, but Henderson’s stamina was relentless. Geezer was tearing about like a madman before he was hooked in the closing stages.
There was also this moment, in the tunnel before kick-off, which presumably means Mbappé is definitely not going to Liverpool now.
Henderson, Mbappe'yi görmezden geliyor 👀pic.twitter.com/L8npccRtzS
— Asist Analiz (@asistanaliz) December 11, 2022
No doubt it had Gary Neville purring in the studio. We all remember his moment.
Hello everyone. How are we feeling? The canteen at Guardian HQ is serving Christmas dinners today. Multiple pigs in blankets are making me feel:
a) more philosophical about England’s defeat
b) full
Righto, I’m away for a breather; here’s Michael Butler to coax youse through the next hour.
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“Southgate might be a lovely bloke with great man-management skills but it takes more than that to win a World Cup,” says Oliver Forrest. “I don’t recall many players talking up Deschamps’ personal skills but he knows how to make the right calls to win tournaments. Southgate inexplicably substituted our best player (Saka) for one of our most out of form players (Sterling), took off our best midfielder (Henderson) and gave France the initiative by sitting deep throughout the first half. We did play well in some ways but we should do, on paper we’re a top side and a quarter-final is the minimum these players should achieve. To go from a good team to a cup-winning team, the margins are very fine, and unfortunately the difference last night was the manager.”
I can’t agree with that; the difference was Kane banging a penalty over the bar. I’m also dubious that Deschamps compares favourably to Southgate – his team are good in spite of him, and with the talent they have and have had, they should be much better than they are.
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I cannot get enough of this. There aren’t many good things to be said for a Qatar World Cup, but I daresay the ease of travel for the Moroccan players’ mums is one of them.
Terrible news from Qatar came overnight on Friday/Saturday.
Back at the Etihad, Laura Coombs has equalised for City in the Manchester derby. United had looked in control, but with just under an hour gone, there’s scope for pretty much anything to happen in the time that’s left.
I wonder how the England players will be when the domestic games get under way again. Luke Shaw and Harry Maguire in particular seemed to have trouble readjusting after the Euros, and what I hear coming out of the squad is they really, really believed they were going to do something special. Normally, they get to go on holiday and assimilate the disappointment into their psyches, but this time they’re coming back to an English winter to go again immediately – the League Cup quarters get going a week Tuesday. At least the German players have had a couple of weeks to accept their failure.
“You could say it was a Maguire error for their goal,” says Francis Mead, “but I think this was a case of a superb cross that was extremely hard to defend against. I haven’t watched it again, but I think there was a bit more misfortune with it since I think it deflected off Maguire in a different direction – it might have been saved without him –but that’s a distraction. The game was clearly partly lost since Kane missed the penalty. I think also you are far too harsh on Pickford for the first goal – he couldn’t dive earlier as the ball came through Bellingham’s legs – and it was a slightly freakish long-shot that was unsaveable. It was an even game in which England had a slight superiority in chances, but France had Griezemann who provided the key cross. We are a different England team, much better than almost any team we’ve had before – you can’t legislate for a loss on very fine margins in a knockout tournament. If the World Cup was a league played every year, I’d give us a chance of winning that league – alas it’s not.
I agree, it was a good cross, but this was the last eight of the World Cup so excellent crosses are expected; it remains Maguire’s job to track his man and he didn’t. On Pickford, I felt he should’ve gambled because we could see where the ball was going, and it flicks Bellingham and goes somewhere else, fair enough. But I agree it was a very fine hit.
Oh, Harry. I can’t say I agree that a late penalty smashed over the bar constitutes a “small detail,” but he seems like a very sound citizen and though England aren’t my team, I’d enjoy him finding redemption because I fear this is one he’ll never quite get over unless he does.
Absolutely gutted. We’ve given it everything and it’s come down to a small detail which I take responsibility for. There’s no hiding from it, it hurts and it’ll take some time to get over it but that’s part of sport. pic.twitter.com/lw5Esl4fnA
— Harry Kane (@HKane) December 11, 2022
“Some of the comments I’ve read are crazy,” says Finlay Fletcher. “What more realistically could we have done last night? Saka had a half-chance, Kane misses a crucial penalty. We went toe-to-toe with the world champions and their experience and management of the key moments was the difference. Some people seem to forget that there is another team trying to win as well, who happens to posses some of the best players around.”
Southgate was clear pre-match that prior to the France game, England knew that if they played well, they’d win, but also knew they could play well against France and still lose. This tournament felt like a big step forward from the Euros “for me” and what has to happen next is that England need to find a way of translating territorial control into chances created.
“Sometimes it’s pretty difficult to understand the European moral double-standard,” reckons Axel Gonzalez Bruenner. “If Netherlands’ players are bringing [redacted]housery it’s because they’re a confident and smart team. If Argentina’s players do some of that then they’re a bunch of classless, idiotic, and whatever-you-want-to-say guys. Let’s remember that the Copa América final between Brazil and Argentina was played at the Maracaná stadium, and nothing happened there, everybody started giving hugs to each other at the end. So, what’s the narrative behind all these awful things you read out there about the Argentinian team? Are the Dutch free of guilt about being the instigators?”
I’ve not read that stuff, though I’d not be surprised if it existed. For mine, I enjoy any needle brought by any team, and the Dutch wrote cheques their penalties couldn’t cash.
Here’s today’s World Cup briefing.
“England should include players who are comfortable on the ball, such as Grealish,” says Stefan Grima. “It’s a more ‘continental’ style of football, allowing them more possession.”
I don’t think possession was England’s problem, and I’m not sure who Grealish plays instead of. England are at their best when playing quickly, and he slows things down – plus Pep Guardiola tends not to pick him for the biggest games, and I’d pay close attention to what he thinks.
“I think Southgate and Santos made the exact same mistake in their quarter-finals yesterday,” says Kári Tulinius. “Both decided to go with the team that did so well in the round of 16, Southgate not changing a single player, and Santos taking Carvalho out for Neves. But France and Morocco offered very different problems to Senegal and Switzerland. Southgate bet that his forwards could outscore Deschamps’, but that seemed a bet he was likely to lose. And Ronaldo was much better suited to leading the line against Morocco than Ramos. That said, if Kane scores that second penalty, and Fernandes’ Van Basten impression comes off, it might’ve been a different story. Fine margins, and all that.”
Well yes –I thought Southgate was in good shape to pick what he thought was his best team and take France on – and the evidence showed he was right, the execution was just off at crucial moments. Ronaldo just isn’t good anymore, so leaving him out made perfect sense to me; ‘m not sure if he starts, we see a different game because his finishing is now unreliable.
On which point, is Varane the dishiest centre-back ever to be that good in the air? How on earth does he even manage it?
“The key thing for me for last night was that England, without playing outstandingly, at least matched the best team in the World,” writes Victor Rushden. “In previous World Cups (such as the 1990 SF), in such games you felt England needed to play outstandingly, the opposition have an off-day, and England would need a bit of fortune to win. As England are getting better, it feels a matter of time.”
Part of me wonders if this was their biggest chance, just because by the next World Cup they might need to have found a new centre-forward – though I guess Kane never had much gas so perhaps he won’t drop off. They could, though use a better pair of centre-backs than the two they’ve got, and I’m not sure I see any obvious candidates coming through. Ultimately, France’s winner came because Maguire made an error while, at the other end, Upamecano and Varane didn’t make that kind of error.
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Leah Galton has put United ahead at City in the WSL Manchester derby – and it’s a really nice goal too.
“Thank you for the World Cup coverage, you’re all doing fantastic work at the Guardian!” says Santiago. “I just wanted to point out, since the Argentinian team has been vilified to no end for their less-than-gracious celebration after defeating Netherlands, to this bird’s eye view of Lautaro Martinez’s penalty. As you’ll see, as Lautaro walks towards the penalty spot, four Dutch players surround him and leave the designated area (rule 3 of penalty shoot-outs determines all players except goalies and kicker must stay in the centre circle), presumably to intimidate him – and apparently that was the case throughout the shoot out. Of course, this doesn’t necessarily justify the behaviour of the Argentinian players (when they go low we go high, etc.), but might help understand it – especially after such a tense game, which included what might be the worst refereeing in this tournament, between two teams who’ve always enjoyed provoking each other (Van der Saar insulting Ortega’s mum and Ortega headbutting him in ‘98 comes to mind).”
No vilification here. That entire farrago was an absolute joy; as Ricky Hatton used to say of boxing, it’s not a tickling contest, and the more needle and edge, the better. Netherlands did what they did to try and get an advantage, didn’t, and I’d be staggered if they thought Argentinas retaliation at the moment of victory was not one they’d more than earned.
“It pains me as a Welshman to say this,” emails Huw Swanborough, “but I think it’s beyond unfair to say that England underperformed or were outclassed last night. I do think the defending wasn’t good enough on Giroud’s goal, but Tchoumeni’s was just one of those goals that you can’t keep out.nEngland created the same quality and quantity of non-penalty chances I think, and played well overall, particularly limiting Mbappé and restricting the French game to counter-attacks even before they took the lead. Non-penalty finishing could have been better, but Lloris also made some good stops, and there were 2-4 occasions where the ball was bouncing without any control between players in the French box that would have been tap-ins on another day. You make your own luck, sure … but even without Kane’s penalty miss, it was a fine margins defeat.”
I’m still not sure about the Tchouameni goal. It was a tremendous hit, sure, but it felt like it was obvious where it was going to go even as he was hitting it, but Pickford didn’t dive until the ball was past the last line of defenders. Had he backed himself and gone early, I think he’d have saved it.
“I just wanted to react about the Argentina v Netherlands game,” says Alexandre. “I think it will be remembered as a classic. I agree that for 80 minutes it was not great, with Argentina totally in control and the Netherlands utterly clueless and impotent in attack. But these last 20 (with the added time) minutes were too great, and the extra time was also decent enough (where’s the ‘extra time is useless’ crowd after these QFs?), before a great penalty shootout. With time we’ll forget the not great parts and focus on this drama. So it’ll be a classic.
Also wanted to quickly weigh in about Southgate. As a Frenchman I was extremely surprised by how good England was last night. I didn’t expect them to be this good. Sure, Southgate has his limitations (taking off Saka? Underusing the bench which was an area where England had a clear edge over France?). But I think what he brings to England in terms of building a team is underrated. To have a better coach you need to find an equally good team builder who’s also great tactically and using his bench - in other words the perfect coach. Good luck with that. Think Southgate will learn and wouldn’t be surprised at all if England were to win the next Euros taking place - guess where ? - in Germany.”
Southgate’s role in fostering a compelling, contagious atmosphere should not be underestimated. The players love playing for him and hanging out as a group, and the atmosphere isn’t confined to the squad but has, to an extent, permeated through the country. I didn’t mind him waiting to make changes because England were on top, but as I said below, Sterling for Saka made little sense to me – though I doubt it was decisive.
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More live football for you, and it’s a biggie!
ITV have sent out last night’s viewing figures:
England v France watched by 23 million on ITV
Biggest audience of 2022 saw England World Cup Quarter-final showdown with France
England’s World Cup Quarter Final match was watched by a peak audience of 23 million across ITV and ITVX last night as the Three Lions were narrowly defeated by France.
The game drew the biggest audience of the tournament and the highest peak on any channel this year (biggest since the final of last year’s European Championship between England and Italy).
It was the most watched programme on television on any channel this year for all viewers (15.1m) and 16-34s (2.5m)
ITV had its best Saturday night on record ( ecords go back to 2002).
Across all viewing on all devices, an average audience of 20.4 million viewers watched the match - with an average of close to 16 million viewers [15.8m] watching the full live and exclusive coverage.
Last night’s England v France match was streamed 15.3m times and Morocco’s win over Portugal, shown live on ITV earlier on Saturday, was streamed 8.2m times.
In total there were 30m streams on ITVX yesterday, which is the best ever for the Hub or ITVX.”
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On the subject of Neves, though, I’ve not a clue why Fernando Santos, right when he’d hit on a formula that worked, brought the Wolves man back into the team when Otavio and William Carvalho looked a decent combination.
A few things I loved at full-time of Morocco v Portugal: Hakim Ziyech just laughing hysterically, unable to believe what was happening; Rúben Neves and Roman Saïss enjoying a hug; and Zakaria Aboukhlal’s teammates whacking him on the head after he missed a one-on-one to finish the game in the tamest fashion imaginable.
I don’t get this. I think Bruno is right, it probably doesn’t make sense to appoint an Argentinian ref for a match the winners of which might play Argentina at some point, and if anyone was going to haul Portugal back into the game, it was him. But his team lost because they played poorly, and the ref was not part of proceedings in the way he was in the Netherlands v Argentina and England v France games.
Bruno Fernandes, #Portugal:
— Karla Iberia Sánchez (@karlaiberia) December 11, 2022
"I don't know if they're going to give the Cup to Argentina. I don't care, I'm going to say what I think and screw them It's very strange that a referee from team that whistles us it's still in the Cup. They've clearly tilted the field against us." pic.twitter.com/hTaCiTTq3k
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I just love how after every big Morocco 🇲🇦 win at #FIFAWorldCup
— Mimi Fawaz (@MimosaFawaz) December 10, 2022
Achraf Hakimi goes to his mum in the stands each time to share the moment with her.
Priceless!
pic.twitter.com/WtziffG7YZ
And as for the players celebrating with their mums, oh my days! My eyeballs are sweating watching this again.
Após a classificação histórica contra Portugal, o meia Sofiane Boufal, de Marrocos, levou a mãe dele ao campo para dançar.
— Carlos Bezerra Jr (@CarlosBezerraJr) December 11, 2022
Quem diria que no futebol, veríamos algo mais emocionante que um gol! #Marrocos#copadomundo2022 pic.twitter.com/mkGESAP2AZ
We’ve not mentioned Morocco v Portugal yet, so what about that one? Portugal, like England, will know they’ve missed a golden opportunity here. Which is not to denigrate Morocco, not at all – in Sofyan Amrabat they might just have the player of the tournament, and they’ve defended brilliantly in every game. I’m also enjoying the historical revenge of them beating Spain and Portugal – with France to come – and watching them express their cultural and religious imperatives in victory is so affirming.
“Presumably Kane practises penalties against Lloris all through the season,” says Garry Smith. “You’d want your best penalty taker to practise against your best keeper, and vice versa. They must both, therefore, know the other’s capabilities very well, and also know the approximate chances of Kane scoring.So perhaps, having already scored one, at the second penalty Kane’s mind may well have been churning with all the options, and also reminding him what his chances were of scoring another. In which case, ballooning the ball way over the bar was perhaps no great surprise?”
In comms, they said he’d not practised many against Lloris – which sounded strange. But I guess the emphatic way he despatched the first made one think he’d sort out the second too – though, if we’re being real, Kane properly bottled one against Denmark in the semis of the Euros, he just got lucky that the ball came back out to him.
Gosh, godspeed old mate.
“Gareth has been amazing with myself,” Maguire said.”
I do love a bit of reflexive pronoun abuse.
“I thought J Liew’s article today hit the nail on the head,” returns John Trolan. “Those who have been there before bring a calmness and confidence to the occasion. Giroud looked rubbish for 10 minutes before he hit the winner. Out of position, couldn’t keep up with the pace and I was surprised he was still on the pitch. But then one chance and he doesn’t blink.”
I think that’s a little generous. Giroud missed a great chance before he scored, the best of the half, and Tchouameni and Hernandez both gave away penalties unnecessarily. Football is a chaotic game, and last night, that worked for France, but it could just as easily not have done.
“Arg v Ned was undoubtedly a dull game,” says Brendan Large. “If you said this was a great game and then showed the first 82 mins to someone they’d think you had lost all grip on reality. The only thing ‘good’ was the excitement at the end. Even extra time was rubbish.”
I referred my mate to Brazil v France from 1986 – and that was played on an unhelpful pitch in the heat of the day. You can watch the full match here and you won’t regret it, I promise.
“Somehow like a poor film, you still remember the one great line years later … the Netherlands free-kick at the end…” says Richard Potter.
That was the goal of the tournament by miles, for mine. The daring to try it under pressure – though I guess if it doesn’t come off, maybe the players can blame managment.
I wrote a little about that here:
“England are like Man City in the Champions League,” says Ian Macpherson. “They have the players, the manager, the resources, can put breathtaking moves together and score great goals … but when the chips are down are outwitted by more savvy teams. They gave it a great shot, but came short at crucial moments, no disgrace in that, especially as the young stars need to learn a bit more cunning I feel. Something France had in their greater experience and nous. They will come good.
On the subject of Southgate, it is crazy to knee-jerk call for his dismissal. There is nobody who could take over and do better, and starting all over with a new man will just disrupt everything he has patiently built around the squad. Let us remember he has detoxified the atmosphere around playing for England, and has created a positive team culture with a raft of young talent. He has addressed the nasty undercurrent of nationalism which has bedevilled the England support for decades, and for that alone should be honoured. To throw that away in the pursuit of a quick fix which will probably set them back is short sighted in the extreme. There is no saviour waiting in the wings. People will remember this match as a classic of its kind, so close it could have gone either way, full of incident and drama. For that alone let us be thankful and enjoy it.”
I agree that it was the best last-eight tie by far, but disagree a little on City. They keep getting caught, as Munich under Guardiola did, because they don’t have the back five to handle it when, as is almost inevitable at that level, a side with serious attackers gets it together. When he had Messi and the greatest midfield ever, he could get away with it, but not otherwise.
“Great football matches don’t always equate to great football,” says John Toolan. “That match between Argentina and Netherlands had everything you want from a classic. Argentina odds on to win until … and the rest is history. You couldn’t take your eyes off it – even when it was over!”
The needle was tremendous, I agree, but I found the game fairly disappointing until the last 10minutes. What I will say is that both that game and Brazil Croatia delivered pretty decent extra-time, which is extremely unusual.
“Southgate did a ‘much better job’ by what metric?” emails Nathaniel Byrne. “Going out sooner in the tournament? Or because they beat an Iranian team without their concussed goalkeeper, an already eliminated Wales and a Senegal team who were missing Mane and just about qualified from a group with their worst team in a World Cup in decades. The soft soap that everyone is applying to Southgate is sickening to an outsider. No critical opinion is being put into his terrible subs, the insipid play throughout the game but particularly the last 10 minutes and the cowardice his teams have always played with. Relegated in Nations league but still doing "‘a much better job’ than what?! Mike Bassett?!”
The metric of what my eyes tell me. The England team at the Euros were better than the England team in the 2018 World Cup, and the England team at this World Cup were better than the England team at the Euros. I don’t really care too much about the Nations League; I criticised his subs below; but I think you can lose a World Cup quarter to the holders, narrowly, and it not mean the manager is rubbish.
“There’s a parallel universe where, Kane having scored the first penalty against his Spurs team mate, reckons the second just seems too risky to try it again, so he hands the ball to Ivan Toney…”
There is no universe, parallel or otherwise, where a killer and team captain like Harry Kane passes on that responsibility. And Ivan Toney has never taken penalties under pressure anywhere near as intense, which is something to which we don’t pay enough heed. We think what separates sportsfolk from the rest of us is talent, and it is, but what also differentiates them from us is the desire to embrace fear.
Settle an argument: I was saying to mate yesterday that the Argentina v Netherlands game wasn’t a classic, it just got a bit exciting at the end; he insisted it was a terrific game of football and a World Cup classic. Which of us is right?
Away from England for a moment, this is incredible.
What a photo this is by @paulmjchilds of @Reuters pic.twitter.com/jnpu3tXiMm
— Ally McKay (@a11ymckay) December 9, 2022
What we need to accept, I think, is that at the top level, it’s possible to play well and lose because the opposition have good players and lots of experience. That’ll be hard for the players to tolerate because a semi-final against Morocco was there for the taking, while Kane and Maguire, who’ll be 33 next time round, might feel this was the chance of their lifetimes.
“It is not enough to set up a team and send them out with the mindset ‘not lose’,” says Anthony Trent. “We have to be brave, we have to have the courage to dare to win.”
I think England did try to win last night. The issue was execution not ideology.
“Southgate is not anywhere near good enough for the job,” emails Patrick Cox. “He has flattered to deceive in every tournament he’s played in thus far. Losing to Croatia in a semi-final? Four million people? Losing to Italy in a final when they can’t qualify for the World Cup is subpar, to be kind about it. The qualifying and friendlies haven’t been a roaring success either. It is sad to lose a great generation of talent like Roberto Martinez with Belgium being poorly managed but it seems to be a theme in international soccer. Those two victories would have set this team up for a title run this tournament but only with a good manager. This England team are fragile mentally, failure is accepted and we should have eaten France up.”
I don’t think it matters how many people live in Croatia if among them are Modric, Kovacic, Rakitic, Mandzukic and so on. I do think Southgate’s tactics were poor against Italy in the Euros final, but in this tournament he did a much better job and ultimately, his players didn’t execute at the big moments. That’s their fault, not his, I’d say
From PA: “Football Association chief executive Mark Bullingham has expressed his pride for Gareth Southgate and the England squad after their World Cup exit. A 2-1 defeat by France in the quarter-finals ended what had been a positive tournament for the national side. ‘Like all England fans we feel the pain of losing a quarter-final, along with the coaches, players and support team who are hurting this morning,’ he said in a statement. “Gareth and Steve (Holland) prepared the team exceptionally well throughout the tournament. The players were committed to winning the trophy and were very well led by Harry Kane. ‘But sport can have fine margins and on the day, against the current world champions, it was not to be. ‘This is a very exciting young English squad and, despite the intense disappointment of last night, they should be very proud of their performances in Qatar. ‘We are incredibly proud of Gareth, the players, the coaches and the support team and appreciate all the hard work they put in.’”
“Regarding Southgate,” says TS Ahmad, I think his team is mature enough to win without him. I don’t know if fans want to see him in for the Euros; time must be spent efficiently and you have a fantastic squad but that are growing too so if England doesn’t win it wouldn’t fans think back and say: he should have gone by the end of the World Cup, he only took us to the quarter finals? (even it is hard to do it, as the sentiment is that the boys played well). Hard to see a capable manager (e.g.Eddie Howe) leave their jobs and pursue the England one.”
Yup, I don’t see that there are loads of alternative options should Southgate turn it in.
And here are Barney Ronay’s thoughts (apologies, I’ve had some connectivity issues).
Updated
“Lack of chances?” says Ed Bayling. “Think you’re being a bit harsh there. Bellingham drew a great save from Lloris with that fiery volley, and Maguire nicked the woodwork with a back post header from about four yards. And one could argue the penalties would have been good chances, but for a timely foul...”
I wouldn’t class Bellingham’s dig as a chance created – the ball fell to him and he had a dig, but it was almost impossible to score from there given the height and pressure. Which leaves us with one header from a corner; I don’t think Mount was getting near the pass prior to the penalty he won, nor do I think Saka was on the cusp of creating something but for Tcouameni’s foul.
Email! “When a French fan was asked who they feared about England, he said, ‘Rashford’,” muses Peter Gartner, “Rashford, given more of a chance, could be as good as Mbappé. We might have done better if Rashford had started, instead of putting him on with about five minutes left. I don’t understand Southgate under-using Rashford.”
I don’t think Rashford could be as good as Mbappé, but I do think he’s got more talent than Sterling – Sterling has just played in better teams and for better managers and coaches. My guess on his usage by Southgate is that he’s a really good sub – a better one than three other wide attackers – and I thought oden and Saka did well in the second half yesterday.
Yep, since start of 20/21 season for Utd
— Daniel Castle (@RonnLennon) December 4, 2022
29 sub appearances, 12 goals / 2 assists
Updated
We’re saddened to hear of the death of Grant Wahl and send our condolences to his family and friends. We’ve made his article from WSC 328 (June 2014) telling the story of his bid for the FIFA presidency free to read: https://t.co/xqg3yx9Sx6 pic.twitter.com/ijdEvW2WbP
— When Saturday Comes (@WSC_magazine) December 11, 2022
One thought that’s nagging at me: even when England were dominant in the game, they still failed to create any serious chances, and the best one of the second half was wasted by Giroud.
Here are Jonathan Liew’s thoughts on last night.
Ouch dept:
Gareth Southgate and the England players leave their hotel after their World Cup exit. pic.twitter.com/pXNuLJ5Jih
— Sky Sports News (@SkySportsNews) December 11, 2022
The story of last night, in photo form.
There’s live sport for our delectation going on right now, the Testvangelists at it again.
I’d be fairly surprised if Southgate goes. I think he husbanded his resources far more wisely than in the Euros, and England now have a team able to go up against yer Frances and try to dominate. Previously, they’d have planned to defend deep while hoping for a counter or a moment of magic. Now, though, they’ve the ability to dominate in midfield, and if Kalvin Phillips were to replace Jordan Henderson, you’d have three absolute physical brutes, which some very serious technical ability. England and Southgate will know they were good enough to win this tournament, but that they’ll be better two years from now.
On which point, I’ll tell you what I absolutely loved: Giroud’s celebration. When France won the World Cup in 2018, he not only failed to score but didn’t even record a shot on target. He won’t mind too much because he did his job for the team, but it’d be foolish to think that didn’t bother his pride, and he’s making amends this time round.
In similar vein, I agree with Maguire that the ref was poor. But you almost never lose a game because of the officials; they make mistakes and it’s up to the players to be good enough in spite of that. It wasn’t the ref who, to take a random example, allowed Giroud in front of them to score the winning goal.
🗣 "I can't really go into explaining how bad [the referees] performance was."
— BBC Sport (@BBCSport) December 10, 2022
Harry Maguire has had his say after England's defeat by France 😬#BBCFootball #BBCWorldCup pic.twitter.com/VyyVICtRhr
I’m afraid, though, that was not a game settled on ‘small details”, because wellying a late penalty over the bar is, I’m afraid, a colossal happening.
Harry Kane reacted after missing a penalty and England's World Cup exit.#BBCWorldCup #BBCFootball pic.twitter.com/DeqebHgcAZ
— BBC Sport (@BBCSport) December 10, 2022
I agree with Jacob that Saka and Rice were England’s best players, but I thought Bellingham looked a little leggy in the second half. On which point, Sterling for Saka was a very strange sub, I thought. It was, of course, possible that Sterling might’ve scored, but it was hard to see him having as much influence on the game and the player he replaced.
And here are Jacob Steinberg’s player ratings.
Here’s David Hytner’s match report from the Al Bayt Stadium.
Preamble
Every now and again – really not often – a misfortune befalls a sportsperson that has you wincing because you know they’ll be lugging it about them for the rest of their days. John Terry slipping in the 2008 Champions League final, Steven Gerrard saying this doesn’t slip then slipping before Demba Ba scored for Chelsea … and poor old Harry Kane missing a penalty when England looked in with a chance of becoming world champions.
So we’ll be spending today looking back at that and the rest of the quarter-finals, while looking forward to the semis and beyond. Send us in your thoughts, and we’ll see where we get to.
