Thirty minutes into a two and a half hour interview in 2019 with Ben Wallsworth, he bellowed "It's Neal Keeling!" His hearing was shot and his facial recognition was shaky. But his wit, wisdom, deep recall, and humour were all intact.
I was writing an article to recognise his achievement of being granted the Freedom of the City of Salford - an honour which put him in the same league as Nelson Mandela, L S Lowry, filmmaker Mike Leigh, and Prime Minister during the First World War, David Lloyd George.
But the chat took me back to the late 80s and 90s when I was trying to find my way as the new M.E.N kid on the block in Salford - a tough patch to cover. Face to face was how you met contacts then - no emails, no text messages, no teams meetings.
My encounters with Ben - who would become a generous touchstone for me to get stories and to get the facts right - would be two-fold. I would sit in admiration at his no nonsense chairmanship of the city's planning committee. Then, in the corridors of the town hall, during our natters, the craftsmanship of the elder statesman that he was would emerge.
Our exchanges were always friendly. He was generous with his time, and had admirable political nous. He knew I had a job to do, and was happy to help. But his vast experience meant he would pass on drops of wisdom. "Don't shaft us all the time lad or the well will dry up...eh?" was one.
He warranted respect as a Dunkirk veteran, and then as a man who shaped the way a down-trodden and in some places shattered city rose again.
Ben, who has died aged 103, had an impressive pedigree as a Salfordian. He grew up in Ordsall, the son of a docker, spent 44 years as a local councillor, was ceremonial mayor, was awarded an MBE, and his nephew, from the city, is a rock star. He joined Salford Lads Club in 1933 when he was 13. His membership card shows he lived on nearby Percy Street, which led down to the docks. His name also appears on the club's wall of names sculpture.
But it was his forward thinking which has left behind a legacy from which thousands have benefited. In 1983 he surveyed the silent Salford waterfront, one of dereliction, empty buildings, and redundant cargo cranes.
It was a poignant moment. His own father, Robert, had toiled there. But as chairman of the city's planning committee, Ben, an engineer by trade, saw something else - potential. He had been inspired by a journey he had made to visit his daughter, Christine, in Canada, a few years earlier. There he saw waterside developments at Vancouver and Victoria which would become fixed in his mind.
And, as a result Ben, along with the then leader of the council, Les Hough, and the council's then chief executive, Roger Rees, would become the architects of a gamble which would transform the city and its reputation.
In a deal finalised behind closed doors, the council decided to pay £1m for the desolate docklands which had once been the spine of the city's economy. That decision would not only create Salford Quays - but help cement Greater Manchester's reputation as the foremost city-region outside the capital.
In my 2019 interview he recalled with clarity the birth of Salford Quays. "Manchester council wanted to sell the ship canal for about £3m. We hadn't got £3m but we did have £1m we could use for the bit of the docks that was in Salford.
"We used the £1m (from a derelict land grant) which we were going to use to build Eccles recreation centre on buying the land which became The Quays - that is where it started."
"Les Hough was the leader of the council and I told him what had happened in Vancouver and Victoria when the shipping and fishing industries there had dropped a bit. They created homes and shops near the sea front, and turned it into an area for leisure. I had a vision of that for Salford."
To convince Hough, Ben needed him to see Vancouver for himself. "I had to thank Sam Goldstone - chairman of Ward and Goldstone engineering company for that. He paid to send Les to Canada and when he came back Les said 'You're right, Ben' and we set about getting the land.
"I knew that the dockside was a good area to be developed because it was handy in terms of its location to Manchester," Ben said.
He had a wonderful, but often harshly accurate turn of phrase. Describing the stark reality of the closed docklands, Ben said: "We were like an ulcer on Manchester, but I still thought it had huge promise."
The Copthorne Hotel was built at the Quays, which invited other entrepreneurs. But the opening of The Lowry arts centre was a game changer, and was a trigger for what is now MediaCityUK, with both the BBC and ITV having studios there. It also has the new set of the world's longest running soap - Coronation Street. The architecture of the set when the show was launched in December 1960, was inspired by Archie Street, in Ordsall - Ben's home patch.
Ben's vision in creating a strip of land running through the city which has protected status was also pioneering, and has meant green fields, stretching from Monton to Little Hulton, have remained untouched by developers.
The toughness, guile, and humour which Ben had in abundance - during his reign as the city's planning boss -were hewn during courageous army service during the Second World War, and as a fervent trade unionist during his decades working at Farmer Norton's Engineering Company in Adelphi Street, Salford.
His tact, gentle persuasion, and ability to handle any storm of protest from residents up in arms over planning applications was moulded in another role - a football referee. He took charge of games in the Lancashire League when the game was a licence for tackles from behind and two-footed blocks.
Veteran Salford councillor, John Warmisham, said: "Salford owes so much to Ben, his involvement in the development of Salford Quays to what it is today, the way he protected the green belt across the city so we have a green lung running right through Salford for everyone to enjoy. He was an environmentalist, always looking at ways the city could benefit from examples of good practice from across the world. He cared so much this city and has left behind a real legacy.”
"On a lighter note he told me a story of when he was concert secretary at Salford Labour Club in the 1960s and his nephew hounded him to let his band play a spot one night. Ben finally gave in and booked the band. He told me he let them play two songs then walked on stage to stop them and get them off, because he didn’t think they were very good. His nephew was Graham Nash and the band was the Hollies! Ben always had a story and a wicked sense of humour. He’ll be greatly missed."
Flags at Salford Civic Centre have been lowered to half-mast as a mark of respect. City Mayor Paul Dennett said: “Ben was a true son of Salford, a giant in the history of our proud city.
“Millions of people now live, work and visit his legacy at Salford Quays and MediaCityUK every year. Ben’s vision was to create something new from a huge, disused site and the transformation of Salford Docks which he helped to kickstart has been described as one of the most successful regeneration projects in the UK.
“Equally important to Ben, who grew up in inner city Ordsall, was protecting and enhancing Salford’s green spaces. His idea to create Worsley Greenway continues to protect open land between Monton and Worsley from development to this day, a legacy Salford City Council fought to retain.
““Ben served his country during World War Two and Salford as a councillor for 44 years afterwards. He rightly deserved being honoured with the Freedom of Salford for his outstanding, lifelong contribution. My thoughts are with his family and friends. He will not be forgotten."
Ben joined the Territorial Army at 19 but signed up with the Royal Army Service Corps when it became apparent World War II was about to start.
His regiment fought through France towards Belgium and back to the beaches of Dunkirk, where he spent his 20th birthday. He refused to abandon his Lewis gun en route as instructed and used it to defend his unit from aerial attacks when they were trapped on the beaches for three days and nights. He also took the gun aboard the ship which rescued them and it was used to protect the boat when it was attacked by German planes.
Ben was presented with the Military Medal by King George V in July 1940 for his bravery but didn't receive home leave until 1942. Ironically, the day after he came home for Christmas, Salford and Manchester were bombed.
He became interested in politics after campaigning in Ordsall to open up school playgrounds in the evening to provide safe spaces for children to play. His idea led to Salford reviving play streets in the 1980s – an idea the city had pioneered in the 1930s – creating traffic free spaces where children could play safely.
He was elected to the council on May 9th 1957 and, apart from three years between 1968 and 1971, served until his retirement on June 10th 2004. He represented Labour in Weaste, Langworthy and Blackfriars wards, leading on planning in the 1970s. He was also a prominent trade unionist and served as branch secretary for the Amalgamated Engineering Union for many years. He was Ceremonial Mayor of Salford from 2002 to 2003 and is thought to be the only holder of that office to also hold a Military Medal. He was awarded an MBE by the late Queen Elizabeth II in 2001 - 61 years after her father presented him with his military honours.
He was a leading light in the creation of the Red Rose Forest project, which was launched in 1991 in the Croal-Irwell river valley, to plant a million trees across Greater Manchester. He was awarded the Freedom of the City of Salford in October 2019 aged 99, just a few days before his 100th birthday.
Former councillor Derek Antrobus, who worked alongside Mr Wallsworth for more than 30 years, said: “He was always keen on creating good spaces for people to enjoy their lives and he was a green campaigner before it was even a thing.
“He often talked of buses running on hydrogen gas which he had seen in Canada where he had family and, in addition to Red Rose Forest and the Greenway he championed the council taking over Blackleach reservoir, which many were not convinced about. Ben tenaciously fought his corner and we now have a beautiful country park. I often pause to think of him when I visit. I have many special memories of a wonderful man who did so much for Salford.”
Tom Stannard, current Chief Executive of Salford City Council, said: “Salford has benefitted so much from the life and work of Mr Wallsworth. He leaves behind a real legacy in the green and urban spaces he helped to shape in the city he loved and our city is all the richer for it. ”
In 2019 with typical understatement, when asked if he was proud of the Quays as he surveyed its panorama of swish apartments, a nationally regarded theatre, piazzas, MediaCity, offices, bars, and shops, he said: "I feel I have done a bit."
