“When Bobby Clark came on for Liverpool against Bournemouth it meant that James Milner has played alongside a father (Lee Clark at Newcastle) and son (Bobby). How many other players have played alongside a parent and child in their career?” asks Gregg Bakowski. “I’m guessing some Iceland players will get the ball rolling.”
James Milner has been playing Premier League football for almost 20 years, so it’s no surprise that he ended up on the list. And it’s an exceedingly long one, so let’s crack on. “I’m sure there are many, many other players who lined up alongside both Ian Wright and Shaun Wright-Phillips,” writes Tim Postins, “but I’m fairly busy today so I stopped after thinking of Eyal Berkovic, who was at West Ham [and Celtic] with Wright Sr in the late 90s and then Wright-Phillips at Manchester City from 2001-04.”
Patrick Vieira also played with both, for Arsenal and then Manchester City, and a number of you pointed out the various England players who appeared alongside Wright (whose England career ended in 1998) and Wright-Phillips (who made his debut in 2004). The list includes Rio Ferdinand, Michael Owen, Sol Campbell, Gary Neville, David Beckham, David James and Nicky Butt. A couple of other England regulars around that time, Frank Lampard and Joe Cole, appeared alongside Wright for West Ham and Wright-Phillips for their country.
The Wright-Phillips story isn’t done yet. “Phil Jagielka played for England alongside Shaun Wright-Phillips for the first time in a friendly defeat to Spain in February 2009,” writes Adam Pinder. “Fast forward to 2022 and Jagielka is playing for Stoke alongside Shaun’s son D’Margio Wright-Phillips. They first appeared together in a 2-0 win at Hull in January.” Adam also suggests the Scotland goalkeeper Craig Gordon, who has appeared for Hearts alongside Andy Kirk (2002-04) and his son Makenzie (2022).
Given their longevity, goalkeepers are prime candidates for this question. “Gianluigi Buffon managed this feat a couple of seasons ago when he played alongside Federico Chiesa at Juventus,” notes Daniel Herlihy (and others). “During the 1990s, Buffon had shared a dressing room at Parma with Federico’s father Enrico.”
And while it’s not in the question, Alan Owens reckons Buffon has played against at least three father-and-son combinations: Patrick and Justin Kluivert, Diego and Giovanni Simeone, and Lilian and Marcus Thuram.
There are plenty of examples where fathers and sons have played alongside each other, which means all their teammates join the Milnerlist. We looked at this in a previous Knowledge question, but there are a couple of other examples worth mentioning. “I probably won’t be the only person,” begins Erin Ralf, “to point out that 11 Hartlepool United players played (and lost 2-0) against Stockport County’s father-and-son pair Alex and David Herd in the final game of the 1951 Third Division North season.” That also means nine other Stockport players appeared alongside them.
“This season, Queen of the South player-manager Willie Gibson and his son Lewis have both made appearances for the first team,” writes Craig Wilson, “meaning the bulk of the current Queens’ squad have played alongside a father and a son.” There is also, as Andy Masters points out, the case of Gordon and Gavin Strachan at Coventry – they didn’t play together (Gordon’s last game was in 1996-97, Gavin’s first the following season) but their appearances were close enough that most of the Coventry players, including Dion Dublin and Darren Huckerby, appeared alongside both.
John Curry highlights a similar example at QPR, where the England international Dave Clement appeared alongside Les Allen (1965-1969), and his son Clive (QPR 1978-1979).” And finally, spare a thought for the former Manchester United goalkeeper Kevin Pilkington. As Russell Lowdon points out, Pilkington didn’t play alongside Peter and Kasper Schmeichel – but he was back-up to them both, Peter at Old Trafford and Kasper at Notts County.
Managerball
“What is the first instance of surname + ball to describe a manager’s football philosophy? I thought it was Sarriball but a friend pointed out that for a time Stoke played Pulisball. Are there any earlier examples?” asks Daniel Marcus.
The earliest mention we can find of Pulisball comes from the Stoke Sentinel in 2009, when the late writer Stephen Foster was interviewed before the publication of his book, And She Laughed No More:
In the promotion year I went to perhaps half the games. It just wasn’t worth going to them all to watch Pulisball. But you have to respect him.
Foster used the word a few times and it slowly became part of the lexicon, to the point where we now have TenHagball, Southgateball and the rest.
Pulisball was anathema to the style of play at Arsenal during that period. That style already had a name: Wengerball, which seems to date back to the early-2000s. The first mention in the newspaper archive comes from the Observer in October 2006, in a piece by Amy Lawrence about Wenger’s 10th anniversary at the club:
What made [the Invincible season] even more impressive was the style with which it was achieved. Fans called it ‘Wengerball’. There are not many finer sights than Wengerball in full flow.
The earliest mention we can find on the entire world wide web of managerball is from the Arsenal Mania site in January 2004, when Arsenal signed José Antonio Reyes from Sevilla.
[Opposition managers] already had reason to fear us, but now they have reason to fear that stopping the fluid movement of what a lot of us at Arsenal-Mania like to call Wengerball just got a whole lot harder.
Can you beat that? If so, get in touch.
Do call it a comeback
When Werder beat Dortmund in injury time on August 20th after losing 2-0 at 88 minutes, it was pointed out that this was the first such turnaround in Bundesliga history - and "the first in 13 years", or something to that effect, in big European leagues. What was the previous one?
— Yes, That's A Twitr (@yesthatsatwitr) August 31, 2022
We’re not sure about the most recent, but friend of the Knowledge Dirk Maas has unearthed a gem from Serie A in 2004-05. “In January 2005, Internazionale made the impossible possible,” he writes. “After being 2-0 down at home to Sampdoria in the 88th minute, they turned the tables in five minutes and 26 seconds. Obafemi Martins (88), Christian Vieri (90+1) and Álvaro Recoba (90+3) were responsible for an unexpected Inter win.”
Knowledge archive
“What is the earliest in a match that a player has been booked for ‘time-wasting’?”asked John Briggs in 2006.
“I’m sure your Norwegian readers will remember the World Cup qualifying match in Rotterdam between the Netherlands and Norway back in November 1972,” deadpans Bjørnar Steinbakken. “The Norwegians were pegged back by the mighty Johan Cruyff and friends from the outset and their goalkeeper, Per Haftorsen, received a yellow card for time-wasting after only five minutes. The match ended in a 9-0 victory for the home team.”
Not bad, but not the fastest, according to Ed Gilbert. “On 22 December 1979, Derby played Liverpool and the Rams were awarded a penalty after just 20 seconds, which they scored. At the time Derby were on a downward spiral towards near-bankruptcy, Robert Maxwell and the old Third Division. Roy McFarland recognised that Derby were unlikely to win against the eventual league champions and so, with not a little humour, on getting the ball from the ensuing kick-off he hoofed the ball high into the stands; the referee was not amused and booked him. The report does not list the exact time, but it was pretty much around the two-minute mark.”
Can you help?
For transfer contract related reasons, Atlético Madrid have had to wait until the 60th minute of matches to send on their striker Antoine Griezmann. Have any other clubs had to substitute players on or off the field because of financial reasons?
— Kári Tulinius (@Kattullus) September 13, 2022
“The signing of Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang means there are now 10 players who have played for Chelsea who are top scorers for their respective nation: Weah, Gudjohnsen, Mutu, Drogba, Shevchenko, Younghusband (Philippines), Falcao, Lukaku, Eto’o and Aubameyang. Is this a record?” asks Jesse Pajwani.
It is still the case that, between them, Gianluigi Buffon, Peter Shilton and Stanley Matthews have made at least one appearance in every season starting from 1931-32.
— Richard Jolly 🇺🇦 (@RichJolly) September 11, 2022
Can any other three footballers’ combined careers beat the above for combined, unbroken longevity?
I was wondering if Arsenal, in their match against FC Zurich on Thursday, are the only English team ever to start a match under one monarch and finish it under another?
— Andy Brook 🏆 (@andybrook1) September 13, 2022
“As a Welshman living in Mali, I’m struck by the contrast in the number of teams based in the capital city playing in the top league,” mails Seán Smith. “Whereas the Cymru Premier has for much of its history not included a club based in the capital city (and currently only has one team based in Cardiff out of 12), 13 of the 18 teams in Mali’s Première Division are based in Bamako. Are there any other national top divisions that have a higher or lower proportion of clubs based in the capital?”
This week Dorchester Town beat Wimborne Town 1-0 in an FA Cup Qualifying Round Replay. Both teams are nicknamed the Magpies sporting Black and White Stripes in what could be described as the Hardy Derby. Are their any other examples of nickname clashes?
— Newstandroamer (@EWEYSTUEY) September 8, 2022
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