“Which team, crowned champions of Europe, have been quickest to be relegated? And have any players gone from European glory to relegation with the same club (without playing for another club between)?” wonder the lads at the Star & Dragon Pub, Carbondale.
There’s always an obvious, slightly soul-squashing answer to questions like this: teams who were relegated for being wrong’uns. “Marseille won the Champions League in 1993 and were then relegated for their part in a match-fixing scandal in 1994,” writes Paul Brack. “Fabién Barthez was the only starter in the 1993 Champions League final to stay after relegation, playing one season in Ligue 2 before joining Monaco in 1995. Jean-Philippe Durand, a midfielder, came on as a substitute in the final and stayed with the club until his retirement in 1997.”
Nine of the 13 players who got on the field in the 1993 final were still at the club when they were relegated. The rest – Rudi Völler, Basile Boli, Jocelyn Angloma, Éric Di Meco, Jean-Jacques Eydelie, Jean-Christophe Thomas and Didier Deschamps – all left in the summer of 1994.
The quickest decline without official intervention is five years. “Nigel Spink, coming on as a substitute goalkeeper and putting in a man-of-the-match performance, helped Aston Villa beat Bayern Munich in the 1982 European Cup final,” writes Nick Bagshaw. “It was his only first team appearance of the season. How quickly things turned for the club. In 1986-87, he played 32 times in a terrible season for Villa as we got relegated. Allan Evans, Gary Shaw and Gary Williams also played in the ‘82 final and were in the squad that went down (though injury-plagued Shaw only made one league appearance in ‘86-87).”
All four played some part in Villa being promoted at the first attempt, though only Spink and Evans appeared regularly.
Carl O’Reilly and Dirk Maas have chipped in with the other European champions to subsequently discover the trapdoor:
1) Manchester United – champions in 1968, relegated in 1974 (six seasons)
Of those who played in the final, Alex Stepney and Brian Kidd were relegated. Stepney stayed at United and Kidd moved to Arsenal. George Best played for United in 1973-74 but had left the club by the time they went down.
2) Juventus – champions in 1996, relegated in 2006 (10 seasons, Calciopoli scandal)
Alessandro Del Piero and Gianluca Pessotto both started in 1996 and were relegated 10 years later. Del Piero played in Serie B. Pessotto retired, became sporting director and then tried to take his own life.
3) Nottingham Forest – champions in 1980, relegated in 1993 (13 seasons)
4) Milan – champions in 1969, relegated in 1982 (13 seasons, Totonero scandal)
5) Hamburg – champions 1983, relegated in 2018 (35 seasons)
Doubling down
“With Burnley and Sheffield United on just 13 points each, it’s not impossible their combined points total would fail to keep them up. Has this ever happened?” wonders Crispin Leyser.
For this question we’re ignoring the wrong’uns, because they skew the points totals and it’s just not that interesting. We want teams who were crap on merit! And the ever-reliable Chris Roe has dug up a 21st-century example. “In the 2002-03 Premier League season, a combined West Brom-Sunderland team would have got 45 points and been relegated on goal difference by Aston Villa.”
In response to Crispin Leyser's question, the 17-18 La Liga ended with the bottom 2 teams on 22 and 20 points, 1 shy of the combined total of Leganes and Bilbao in 16th and 17th:https://t.co/E2l0dDBASZ pic.twitter.com/d2fiEDta4K
— Alex Davies (@acbndavies) February 28, 2024
Low scoring, high expectations
“Gillingham are currently in a League Two playoff position despite scoring 32 goals in 34 games, the fewest of any team in the division. Has the lowest-scoring team ever been promoted?” muses Chris Matterface.
Not only promoted, but they’ve won the whole shebang (AIK in Sweden, 1998, and Aduana Stars in Ghana, 2010). In terms of England, though, Chris Roe has us covered again: “The highest position achieved by a division’s lowest scorers is sixth, by Lincoln City in League Two back in 2002-03, when they scored 46 goals.”
That’s a neat average of one a game, with the Imps possessing the league’s best goals-against record (37). It took them to the playoff final against Bournemouth, where they scored twice – only for the Cherries to hit five in Cardiff.
Corrections corner
In last week’s Knowledge we looked at goalscoring full-backs. We missed out West Ham’s nerveless right-back Ray Stewart, who scored 84 times for the club – 76 of them penalties. That’s enough to put him on our list of full-backs with the most for one club.
121 James Tavernier (Rangers, 2015-)
105 Nelinho (Cruzeiro, 1973-82)
101 Manny Kaltz (Hamburg, 1971-89)
88 Stuart Pearce (Nottingham Forest, 1985-97)
84 Ray Stewart (West Ham United, 1979-91)
Also last week, we didn’t do our job properly and failed to recognise that Jayden Danns’ shirt number of 76 wasn’t even the highest in this year’s Carabao Cup final of 2024, never mind all domestic cup finals. Thanks to the 162 of you who pointed out that Conor Bradley had 84 on his back and Jarell Quansah 78.
Long-time leaders losing
Is this a record for the longest time winning a game before losing? pic.twitter.com/7GjDRtfFje
— The Sheep (@thesheep1903) March 2, 2024
We had a variation on this question last season, when Arsenal came from 2-0 down to beat Bournemouth with a 97th-minute winner from Reiss Nelson. St Mirren’s win equals the 96-minute gap between the first and last goals in that game, but Ben White levelled for Arsenal in the 70th minute – so Aberdeen were ahead for 94 minutes to Bournemouth’s 70ish.
Another fine example from this season comes courtesy of Spurs, who led from the third minute at Molineux before conceding in the 91st and 97th minutes to lose 2-1. The gap of 88 minutes is still six less than Neil Warnock had to endure in Paisley, though, added first-half injury time notwithstanding .
Can anyone beat that? Email us or tweet @TheKnowledge_GU.
Knowledge archive
“What is the record crowd for a friendly in Britain?” asked Kris Scrimgeour in 2009.
Pleasantly straightforward, this one. The record for an international friendly is 125,683 – achieved at Hampden Park for a game between Scotland and France, which the home side won 2-0, all the way back on 27 April 1949. That answer was provided by Sean DeLoughry, and so was the record for a friendly between two club sides – 104,493 for Rangers 1-2 Eintracht Frankfurt, also at Hampden, in October 1961.
An honourable mention goes to Chelsea 3-3 Dynamo Moscow in 1945. While the official attendance for that match was listed as 85,000, many witnesses estimated the true figure at close to 100,000, and according to Damon Maddison: “The crowd were spilling out of the terraces and on to the dog track, while some people even climbed on to the roof of the stands to watch.” The highest official gate for that tour was actually at Ibrox, however, where 92,000 saw Dynamo draw with Rangers.
Can you help?
“A friend was telling me about a Cup tie Sheffield Wednesday lost at Wolves in the mid-90s, after being 3-0 ahead in a penalty shootout,” mails Kevin Bartlow. “Are there any examples of a team being 4-0 up in a shootout and losing?”
@TheKnowledge_GU Scottish league 2 bottom side @ClydeFC beat leaders @StenhousemuirFC 6-1 at the weekend, this is the first in Scottish league history that a team bottom of the league has beaten a team at the top by 5 goals (best was 3). Has a bottom side done similar or better?
— Sam Clark 🇺🇦 (@SamclarkSam) February 28, 2024
“In the current edition of Slovenia’s top tier, there are 10 clubs and only two (Maribor and Celje) have never been relegated,” writes Jasa Lorencic. “Is this the fewest in a top flight or smallest percentage of teams?”
Question: Starting with the 20 Premier League teams, how deep into the football pyramid one needs to go to find 2 teams that have never played against each other, ever?
— Chittaranjan (@Chittaranjan) March 2, 2024
Any of the other big European leagues have a smaller gap between teams having never played each other?
“In the Women’s Nations League last week, there were two ties in which both legs finished with the same score (Belgium 5-1 Hungary, Sweden 5-0 Bosnia),” notes Jon Taylor. “What’s the highest score to be repeated over two legs in the same tie?”
Has a player ever not celebrated a goal against a specific club, besides ones they were previously with?
— Derek Brosnan (@DerekBrosnan) March 5, 2024
Excluding not celebrating because of the score either.
“Have there been any situations where a player has refused to come out for the second half?” asks Peter Clarke. “If so, what retribution was taken by the club?”
• Mail us your questions or tweet @TheKnowledge_GU
