"There's no good answer to this question,” Wes Streeting says.
“Because if I say no, absolutely, I've never had such ambitions, no one would believe it."
He’s come in to Mirror HQ for a chat a few weeks before his memoir, One Boy, Two Bills and A Fry-Up is released.
And the question I’ve just asked him is the obvious one. Do you want to be Prime Minister?
The book isn’t much like most political memoirs, the kind published by ambitious, young politicos with an eye on the top job.
It’s a raw, honest recollection of his upbringing, full of warm descriptions of the friends and family members who influenced his character and politics.
"[The book] is not an ideological tract,” Wes says. “It's not my kind of vision for Britain. But you can tell through the book where my politics come from, and where my values come from.”
It paints an unflinching picture of the poverty he grew up in - including one truly horrifying description of a flea infested flat.
Having risen through the Labour ranks to serve as Shadow Health Secretary, he says growing up in poverty made him a stronger politician.
"I think it definitely has given me advantages as a politician in terms of understanding what life is like at the sharp end, it absolutely informs my politics, my values, my outlook,” he says.
“I do a lot of talks to schools across East London, talking to kids from backgrounds like mine. And one of the things I say to them is...it does build resilience, it builds strength of character. It's almost like running a race.”
He makes the comparison with Tory MP Jacob Rees-Mogg, with whom he sat on the House of Commons Treasury Committee.
He said: “Two MPs who couldn't be more different in terms of backgrounds, politics, but sat around the same table with the same vote, the same weight of authority and responsibility.
“So you could argue we've reached the same destination. But I would argue that I've had to jump more hurdles in my life. And that's made me the stronger athlete."
Wes is eager to encourage people from more diverse backgrounds to enter politics - keen to, as he puts it, “send a ladder down”.
“I really don't mean this in an unkind way to Rishi Sunak,” he says.
“I don't want this to sound as partisan as it inevitably will. I don't resent his success. And I want more people to be successful.
"I do think if Rishi had had a background that was more like mine, more like Keir Starmer’s, more like Angie Rayner’s, he wouldn't have taken 20 quid off people in Universal Credit every week.”
He adds: “I genuinely don't think the guy knows what £20-a-week means to people on rock bottom incomes... It's not that the Tories are evil people, or the sort of fictional villains who go into work thinking how do we plunged more kids into poverty today.
“But if they knew what life was like, for more people, they wouldn't make these sorts of choices."
He cites Harriet Harman among the role models that influenced him, and says he recently told her, “I want to do for working class people in the Labour Party what she's done for women. Because when she was elected to Parliament, she was very much a trailblazer.”
Speaking of trailblazers, I say in a lazy segue to the obvious question from earlier - before asking if he sees himself as one. And (deep breath) would he like to be Britain’s first openly gay Prime Minister?
“One of the things I really try and get across in the book is this sense and a message to kids from backgrounds like mine, that you should never let anything stand in your way you should go as far as your talents will take you. And I will never apologise for being ambitious,” he replies.
“But I think people underestimate and have always underestimated my loyalty to Keir.”
Wes says he wants to see more diversity in leadership - be that in sexuality, gender or class.
“I think that one of the things that will make Keir Starmer a better Prime Minister, is that, sure, he's got this hugely impressive career as someone who's run a major public service as Director of Public Prosecutions, but look at his background,” he continues.
“Like, don't let the knighthood for public service fool you. This is a guy who's grown up in actually really humble beginnings. And you talk to Keir about his politics and what really motivates him, a lot of it is about his family.
“I’ve got the privilege of working really closely with care and seeing him up close, and what makes him tick...I think if there were more opportunities for people to see who we are as politicians, I think it could go a long way to rebuilding public trust and confidence in our politics."
He adds: “I think if you'd asked me three years ago, would we be where we are today? I think I would have privately said, can we turn it around in one term, from taking us from the worst defeat since 1935, to a Labour government? I'm not sure it's even possible. And that's what Keir has done."
So then, back to the question - does he want to be Prime Minister?
"If my only achievement in politics is to have been the Secretary of State for Health that takes the NHS from its worst crisis in its history, to building an NHS that's fit for the future. I will die very happy,” he says with a smile.
“So with my characteristic modesty and humility, I would just say if I'm the 21st century Nye Bevan I'll be very happy with that."
One Boy, Two Bills and a Fry Up: A Memoir of Growing Up and Getting On by Wes Streeting, to be published on 29th June by Hodder & Stoughton.
Read extracts from One Boy, Two Bills and a Fry-Up, starting exclusively here.
