The end of the autumn has resulted in some major soul searching on both sides of the Severn Bridge.
Wayne Pivac and Eddie Jones are feeling the heat, with neither guaranteed to make it to the Six Nations at this rate. In fact, it feels like either still being in their role over Christmas would be something of a pyrrhic victory for either.
In this situation, with both sides struggling, there can be a tendency to drift into something of a pity party, with all involved on either side of the border insisting the grass is that little bit more dead on their own side.
