Teamsters General President Sean O’Brien has made headlines in recent months for meeting with Donald Trump about the union possibly supporting Trump’s candidacy for president. O’Brien will speak Monday night at the Republican National Convention, becoming the first Teamsters president to ever do so. He is also speaking at the Democratic convention next month. Until then, the Teamsters — with 1.3 million members, one of the largest labor unions in the United States — are withholding a presidential endorsement.
Most other U.S. labor unions have endorsed President Joe Biden, and many Teamsters are upset with O’Brien’s decision to engage with Trump.
Rick Smith is a longtime Teamster who says O’Brien is “normalizing” Trump by granting him a platform to appeal to union members, especially given Trump’s poor labor record. Smith is a truck driver and host of “The Rick Smith Show,” a nationally syndicated talk show about workers and labor power. Smith spoke out against O’Brien’s turn toward Trump on his show. He was later confronted at a party by O’Brien, who demanded he make an on-air apology for his remarks, an encounter that was first reported in the New York Times.
O’Brien has said he wanted to make sure “every candidate — not just President Biden” understands the issues facing Teamsters. Reached by phone, a Teamsters spokesperson declined to comment on Smith’s account of his encounter with O’Brien.
This interview has been edited for brevity and clarity.
Capital & Main: You’re a lifelong Teamster. How did you react when you first learned that Sean O’Brien had agreed to give a speech at the Republican National Convention?
Rick Smith: I was not surprised. He had already made the pilgrimage to “MAGA-Lago,” took Trump into the union hall where Trump held a press conference in front of [the horses on the Teamsters’ logo] Thunder and Lightning. That was a tacit endorsement right there. In an election as close as this … to platform Trump is really leadership malpractice.
Joe Biden has been so very good for labor, especially for the Teamsters. The Teamsters’ Central States Pension Funds were in trouble, but the Butch Lewis Act got passed and pension funds are now secure thanks to Joe Biden.
Donald Trump was horrible for organized labor. The people that he put into positions of power were horrible for organized labor. Look at the general counsel for the National Labor Relations Board under Trump — a guy named Peter Robb, who was instrumental in firing the Professional Air Traffic Controllers Organization workers back in 1981. As opposed to Joe Biden’s choice of Jennifer Abruzzo, who has been nothing short of amazing.
What do you make of Trump’s attempt to appeal to union members?
I think it’s a false attempt, like everything else that Donald Trump does. It’s all show and no substance. We went through an entire four years of Donald Trump promising to reshore manufacturing and invest in infrastructure. He did nothing but talk. Look at what his administration did. Donald Trump appointed Neil Gorsuch to the Supreme Court, a guy who was the deciding vote in the Janus decision, basically creating a right-to-work environment in the public sector. Donald Trump himself says he supports right-to-work laws.
Given Trump’s record on labor, what do you make of the declining share of union members voting for Democrats?
I think a lot has to do with the fact that the right-wing portion of our corporate-controlled mainstream media is very powerful. Wealth has invested in talk radio, cable news, podcasts and social media to convince working people that fighting for better wages, hours and working conditions is not important. But, [the right-wing media says] Joe Biden is the reason for inflation!
Labor has been under such attack for so long. When I started in the workforce [in the early 1980s], union density was about 20%. Right now, you’re looking at 6.9% of workers unionized in the private sector. So, people don’t see that unions can — I fear they don’t think that unions can make a difference. Although, the polling for me is hopeful.
But the reason union density is declining is because employers have so much power. The NLRB, over the last several decades, has been so weakened because of Republican administrations, and not just Trump’s. We’re talking about dwindling power for organized labor, decades in the making.
You know, in 2016, my family, otherwise known as the “basket of deplorables,” enthusiastically voted for Donald Trump, not because they’re racist or homophobic — they are, but that’s not the reason that they voted for him. They voted for him because he said he was going to bring back all those jobs on Brookpark Road in Cleveland. Trump was going to rebuild the American Dream; they heard “union jobs.” And yet at every opportunity to help union workers, he chose not to and put people into positions of power who only weakened labor.
The reality is that labor has fallen in importance for workers. Sadly, both parties haven’t been great on labor over the last several decades. And people have looked at other issues, like guns, gay marriage, abortion and everything else that’s been put out there to slice and dice and pit us against each other.
Why do you think O’Brien is speaking at the RNC?
I honestly don’t know. I can guess. The most supportive [read] of Sean O’Brien is that someone has convinced him that he’s gonna be this generation’s George Meany [the influential labor leader]. Meany had President Richard Nixon’s ear and was able to sway Nixon to be supportive of labor issues like the passage of OSHA. [In 1970, Nixon signed the Occupational Safety and Health Act, which established regulations to ensure safer working conditions and reduce workplace hazards.] Someone could argue O’Brien could be the guy who gets Trump to be less bad. The worst scenario, where this is all a quid pro quo, and perhaps they’ll make him secretary of labor. There’s a whole range of possibilities in between.
Now understand, I voted for Sean O’Brien. I supported O’Brien all through the contract fight at UPS [United Parcel Service], and I was happy with the contract that we got in the freight industry. I’ve supported him in every way as they’ve tried to organize Amazon.
Where my support ends is platforming Donald Trump.
You said you had an “encounter” with O’Brien at a union party in Pennsylvania. What happened?
I went up to him and I said, “Hi, I’m Rick Smith.” He goes, “I know who you are. You’ve been shit-talking me.” And I said, “Nope, don’t think I’ve been doing that.” He goes, “I got people watching you.” I go, “I hope so! But I don’t think I’ve been shit-talking you. I disagree with you. Is that what you mean?”
And yeah, obviously that was it. He was quite unhappy and told me that if I wanted any relationship with my union, that I would have to go on my show and apologize.
And then a couple of days later, I went on the show, and I apologized that Sean doesn’t have people around him to give him good advice. I didn’t apologize for what I said. I stand by every word I said.
I imagine you didn’t hear back.
No, we didn’t get a response. Look, it is not personal between me and O’Brien; I don’t know the man very well. I am not thrilled with Sean O’Brien right now with this decision. But tomorrow, if O’Brien picks up the phone and says, “Rick, I need you to come and help us organize Amazon workers,” I’m going to be there in a heartbeat.
What do you think people will take away from O’Brien’s speech?
Nobody’s going to remember what he said. They’re going to remember that he was there. He will be the poster child for “Hey, Donald Trump has labor support.”
He’s their dancing show pony, and they’re going to ride him all the way to the election.
