Plaid Cymru leader Adam Price insisted independence remained at the forefront of his political aims as he gave a wide-ranging interview to WalesOnline at the Plaid Cymru conference in Llandudno.
Mr Price, who has led Plaid Cymru since 2018, also spoke about his hopes for the next General Election and what would count as success for his party- saying he would be happy even if the party does not gain any seats.
You can read the full interview with Mr Price below:
WalesOnline: Good morning Mr Price. When do you think there will be a general election?
Adam Price: God. I mean, I know when I'd like that to be one, which is as soon as possible. I think that it's difficult to see how anyone who's becomes the prime minister in seven days time, has legitimacy, morally or politically to continue in office. I think there's even a grudging acceptance of that in parts of the Conservative Party from what I saw of Robert Buckland's comments earlier.
It's not just a pound that has been trashed, isn't it? It's trust in democracy. Trust in democracy, as has been under pressure right across the western world as it were. But we've had serial crises in terms of people's stress at Westminster. And just when you have uttered the words' new low', the new low isn't as as low as the as the newer, new low! And just when you think a new Prime Minister couldn't possibly be worse than Boris Johnson, and yet they arrive and then a fear that that's what we're going to get. Or we're going to get, the comeback clown flying back from his Caribbean holiday to save us all. Goodness. So, and election has to happen. It should happen as soon as possible, will it happen? Well there is a gaping moral vacuum at the heart of the Westminster system, and they're capable of, of doing nothing.
Whether election is tomorrow or in two years, what does success look for Plaid in that election?
Well, it's got to be growth hasn't it? That's what we are always looking for a political party and we want to see as many Plaid Cymru MPs elected as possible. Even if there's a change in the political administration at Westminster and a Labour government is elected, what's critical for Wales is that Wales' voice is heard. Whether it's a landslide Labour government or whether it's a closer result, what we need is to get the fair funding settlement in order to get the powers for Wales transferred in an irreversible way so so that we're never in a position again where we can't be insulated from the worst excesses of a future right wing administration.
The only way we're going to get that is by people sitting up and asking what's happening in Wales. We get that by putting independence on the political agenda and we get that most forcefully of all by electing as many Plaid Cymru MPs as possible.
So if success is more seat for Plaid Cymru, where are those seats going to come from?
It's growth in every sense, because I think it's not just seats, it's votes, because that does matter as well. The proportion of the vote for Plaid Cymru, even in areas where we don't win, does matter. If you see that growth it means something doesn't it? It means something in terms of where Wales going in terms of the growth of the support to the independence movement.
Where does it leave you if there's no growth as a leader? What position are you in if after the next election there's stagnation? If there's not growth where does that leave you as leader?
You know I always want tomorrow to arrive yesterday. And that will always be the case, because that's what leaders should do. You got to set ambitious and exacting goals and drive things forward. I'll always be that way and I will always be wanting things to grow faster etc.
But what does it mean, for me? That's not the way that I look at life or look at politics. I don't see it in those terms. I know we are caught in politics as this celebrity culture or soap opera, and goodness, gracious. it's been a Greek tragedy in the last few days. Like Shakespeare in cheap suits, isn't it? Or not so cheap in some cases.
But I think politics has got to be more than that. It must be more than who's up and who's down? It has become a horse race, hasn't it? And part of the problem is the politics has been collapsed into into careerism. And that lies at the degeneration of the modern Conservative Party and politics was meant to be more than the fate of individuals. It actually is the fate of a whole society and that's what we should return to. So it doesn't really matter what happens to Adam Price. It matters what is going to happen to Wales.
Independence is polling consistently at around 30%. But you can't imagine a more favourable environment for growing indy support than what we have at the moment in terms of what we're seeing in Westminster. How do you increase that beyond the 30%? The low hanging fruit of independence support seems to be an all eaten up, how do you make inroads and increase support?
So two ways. I think we have to tap into the anger and revulsion that many many people will have felt having watched the horrible scenes at Westminster over the last few few days. Our message to people is that they are right to be angry (and the First Minister that was angry this week), and you know, anger has its place but don't just get angry, get even. And the ultimate way to get even and to even the scale is to become our own independent nation so that we never ever in this position again.
I'm tired, I have had enough and the only way we escape from this terrible awful loop cycle of: bad, worse, and worse again is if we get independence. The choice is either we get we get rid of them [the Tories] for a few years, hopefully, but then we get them again at some point. Or we get rid of them forever, and we have a Tory free Wales. Not just for one election. We could actually have a Tory free zone in terms of a government in Wales where we have never voted for a Tory Government- we can have it forever. What is there not to like about that? And even those skeptics, the First Minister being one of them, surely he can accept that there is progressive potential? That it's at least an idea worth worth looking at?
So we do we first of all channel the anger. The second one is we have to appeal not just to people's hearts but to their heads. And that's why the work that we've begun looking at the detailed economic questions, that's the second essential element and might be saying more about that in my speech, later today.
You've mentioned lowering the price cap for energy, freezing rail fares, universal school meals, and a 25% Universal Credit uplift. Where's your plan on bankrolling this?
[Opening up his laptop] I have a spreadsheet here - I knew this was going to come up. We've costed in terms of the Welsh Government's side of things. In terms of UK Government clearly a real windfall tax and also a more equitable tax structure overall. I could talk about that at length but I think your question is focused more on the Welsh situation. We've been clear about what we think the principles should be in terms of how you should fund it.
So essentially, if you're talking about the current financial year, because we need to take action now, we can't wait till April. So there, there are three sources of money that we need to look at. One is the reserve. The other one is the unallocated spending. So the latest figures that we have would be from the supplementary budget and the summer, those figures will have changed, but there will still be some money under the reserve and the unallocated spending in the existing budget.
The third element would be reallocations, you're looking at underspends in budgets. You get to this time of year and every government, including the Welsh Government will have underspends for variety reasons. And we know this because some of them in our cooperation agreement and we see the figures, You have underspends and then you can can basically reprofile the budget .
The Scottish Government have done that themselves in announcing their emergency budget review, which they're going to be conducting and they've reallocated already, I think something like £500 million, which is around about 1% of their annual budget. So that's a reallocation. So it's those three pots of money that you would need to rely on now.
In terms of next year, then it's two things then in essence, it's reallocations again. But the other and we have been absolutely upfront about this and it is that we do need to use out income taxpayers in a progressive way and in a proportionate way.
In your time as leader so far, what would you say is you best achievement?
Oh without a shadow of a doubt, free school meals. I was on free food school meals for a time during my childhood. There are 45,000 children already receiving universal free school meals as part of the rollout in primary schools and it's growing all the time. It was the right thing to do anyway but my God it has now proven to be the right thing, because those children that would have gone hungry in this cost of living crisis, now we're able to defend them. So that's the one thing, if I achieve nothing else in politics ever again, I can always take that with me to my grave.
Mark Drakeford is going to step down at some point, do you think this makes Plaid Cymru's job easier or harder?
I don't know. I don't know. I have a lot of respect for him personally. We have a good we have a good working relationship. And we've proven that through the through the competition. You can you can conduct your way yourself in a way which allows you to have civil disagreement, and even when that can be passionately expressed. But I feel that there's a different way of doing democracy.
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