A victim of the unlawful Robodebt scheme broke down as she told a royal commission that she could not sleep at night and dreaded the phone ringing while being hounded over a debt that never existed.
Sandra Bevan worked as a carer across several different workplaces in south-east Queensland over the 2015-16 financial year.
The royal commission heard she had never had a permanent job in her career, and all her work was casual with inconsistent hours.
Ms Bevan said her income was quite low and she was always trying to work more hours to pay the bills.
She said she loved the work but it was difficult at times, and could be emotionally draining, particularly when she worked in palliative care as she would become attached to her dying patients.
"I was just earning enough money just to get by. There was no money to be put aside for savings, all my bills were paid fortnightly … there was no real money spare," Ms Bevan said.
"I'd often go without food so that my kids could have more food. I wouldn't buy lunch or anything, I'd just have breakfast and leftovers of what the boys didn't eat, which of course wasn't much by the time they were teenagers."
"It was very hard going, financially."
'I'd been so meticulous'
During that time she was accessing a partial Centrelink payment.
Ms Bevan told the royal commission that every fortnight she recorded her income as she did shifts, put time aside to calculate exactly what she had earned and reported it to Centrelink — then would later follow up with a call to ensure it had been reported correctly.
"Sometimes I would even add, like, 20 bucks here, just in case I'd made an error and maybe they'd paid me more. So I'd often over-report, just to cover that," she said.
In April 2019, Ms Bevan was issued with a letter saying there was a discrepancy between her reported income and her ATO data in 2015-16.
"I knew that there had been some kind of error because I'd been so meticulous," she said.
"I couldn't understand how they could have arrived at that conclusion. I was kind of racking my brain about that."
The letter asked her to record more information within 28 days, but Ms Bevan believed all the data she had supplied had been accurate and so there was no point supplying anything further.
Later that year she was told she had a debt of $2,951.
"I was really shocked, and I was really angry," she said.
At that time Ms Bevan was still working pay cheque to pay cheque.
"They may as well have been asking for a million dollars, really. I couldn't have paid that amount. But I had no intention of paying it because I felt that there was an error, and I was determined to find out what that could have been."
Ms Bevan called the agency to try and figure out what was going on.
It was ultimately impossible to retrieve all the details from her employment four years before. Some employers had changed phone numbers, staff who knew her had since left, and one care service she had worked for had become defunct.
"I felt like I'd been found guilty of this thing — fraudulently claiming benefits — and I had to prove my innocence," she said.
"I was spending a lot of time trying to do that, time that I could have spent with my family or working.
Victim knew Centrelink was doing something 'dodgy'
Ms Bevan figured out herself that the agency must have been averaging her income. She wrote back and requested a reassessment of her debt.
In September 2019 she was told her original debt had been amended to a debt of $1,328.
"I still felt there was something wrong with this assessment," she said, though she believed that letter confirmed they were using averaging.
She was adamant that the debt was incorrect, and said she felt angry, frustrated and as though she was being treated like a criminal.
"I felt that they'd made an error and it was not my responsibility to correct their error. I'd done what was legally required of me … I felt that whatever they were doing at that end was dodgy and I was not going to be paying my hard-earned money to them," Ms Bevan said.
"It felt like they were calling me quite a lot. I would often be driving in between shifts, you know it was just a real intrusion.
"Everything I said was falling on deaf ears … it was just awful, there were some times where those conversations, I would be getting off that phone and I was shaking."
"They were barking at me, like, 'you earned $1,600'… really blaming, blaming, blaming and viciously attacking me. And as much as I said, yes I got paid $1,600 that fortnight but the next fortnight I didn't earn anything, and that I did record that information.
"There was one time I was driving home, I was so upset, I was so sleep deprived because of the hours I was working sometimes but also, I couldn't sleep because I was going to bed at night and wracking my brain trying to figure out what had happened, and what was going to happen.
"There were these threats of taking money directly out of my pay or out of my bank account from my tax return. It was just such a weight on my shoulders.
"I do remember driving home at night, just beside myself with worry about this money and thinking, I could just drive my car into a tree and make it stop."
'I was just really devastated'
She began crying, telling the royal commission through her wavering voice and tears that she knew her kids needed her.
"They'd already lost their dad, and I was trying my best to keep the house, a roof over our head," she said.
"I was working so hard and going into every shift trying to be cheerful and happy for my clients, because I didn't want to let on to them that this was happening to me.
"It was just a really horrible time. And it was just made worse by this constant accusations of me apparently doing the wrong thing, when I went to such lengths to do the right thing.
"I was just really devastated. I was trying my hardest in life, just generally, to be a good person. To be a contributing person to society, and this Robodebt, this debt that was over my head — which I knew was wrong — was just the straw that was breaking my back.
"I would dread it when the phone rang, in case it was them, being rude to me, being dismissive of me and treating me like a criminal."
Ultimately, her debt was wiped.
"I was pretty frustrated, angry that they had put me through this months of actual torture … to then eventually, for it to be found that I was right in the very beginning, and I didn't owe them anything," Ms Bevan said.
"I will never access Centrelink benefits ever again."
The royal commission heard she supported one of her children when he finished school until he got a job, though he was eligible for Newstart, because the family had been so traumatised by the experience.
'A great degree of incredulity'
The royal commission has also heard evidence from Catherine Dalton, a former director at the Department of Social Services.
Ms Dalton, now retired, was asked about the time leading up to a February 2015 executive minute to the then social services minister Scott Morrison.
She was also questioned about the advice her team was asked to provide to the Department of Human Services, regarding the idea that eventually became a new policy proposal, and then became the Robodebt scheme.
The royal commission has used the last fortnight of hearings to zero in on the advice in that executive minute that such a scheme would require legislative and policy change.
Within weeks, official documentation that went to Cabinet did not contain that advice.
"I can't say my memories are accurate as to who spoke what, but I do remember someone saying – they can't do it without legislation," Ms Dalton said.
"Do you remember that being a general sentiment… was there a common understanding in the team that there was, perhaps incredulity might be a bit high, but perhaps something approaching that?" Senior Counsel Assisting Justin Greggery asked.
"Yes, I would say so… we realised it was something yet to be really worked through, but there was a great degree of incredulity within the team," she responded.
"I clearly remember people saying, the recipient has to report fortnightly. You cannot then turn around an annualise debt."
The royal commission has adjourned its public hearings for the year and will return for further sessions in 2023.
It is expected to call more former Coalition government ministers to give evidence.
