A senior manager at Queensland’s troubled state-run DNA testing laboratory has broken down after being repeatedly accused of lying to a commission of inquiry during day two of her evidence.
The inquiry before Walter Sofronoff KC has been probing issues including the processing of crime scene samples and the workplace culture at Queensland Health's Forensic and Scientific Services (FSS).
There are fears serious crimes have gone unsolved in Queensland after a change of processes meant the lab no longer fully tested some samples containing very small amounts of DNA.
Some scientists at the lab had raised concerns about the decision, which was made in 2018 after the lab gave the Queensland Police Service (QPS) an options paper about testing.
Two managing scientists at the lab – Cathie Allen and Justin Howes – were stood down in September after a damning interim report into the lab sent shock waves across government and the justice system.
Friday afternoon Ms Allen became emotional while being questioned about why scientists had not routinely looked at crime scene photos before deeming some of them as insufficient for further processing.
Ms Allen said her staff could have put forward suggestions to improve the processes.
"Are you trying to suggest it's the fault of your staff for not having suggested that process improvement?" Counsel assisting the inquiry Michael Hodge KC asked.
"No, I'm just saying quality improvement is everybody's responsibility," she replied.
'You have lied consistently and repeatedly'
Mr Hodge then went on to ask what it says about the "adequacy" of Ms Allen's management that she did not think more deeply about the use of the provided photos until the commission of inquiry was called.
"I think it shows that I have a large number of tasks to do … " Ms Allen said as she began to cry.
"You have lied consistently and repeatedly about your conduct because you are unwilling to admit what it is you have done," Mr Hodge put to her in a later exchange.
"That is not true and I refute that," she said.
Mr Hodge today put it to Ms Allen that she was lying about the options paper.
"Once again the evidence that you're giving to explain this is a lie isn't it Ms Allen?"
Ms Allen rejected that.
"No it's not a lie, I'm not a liar, I'm not lying," she said.
Mr Hodge said Ms Allen "quite deliberately" set out to engineer a result where police would choose not to continue with the automatic processing of some crime samples in the "DIFP range".
DIFP means "DNA insufficient for further processing" and refers to samples with very low levels of DNA.
"That is not true – it was about ensuring the resources went into the samples that they [police] wanted them to go into and did they want to have input into those samples," Ms Allen said.
'It's a lie, isn't it?'
In one exchange Mr Hodge repeatedly pressed Ms Allen about her version of events at the lab.
Mr Hodge: "It's a lie isn't it when you suggest that you were in any sense neutral about whether the QPS agreed to option one or option two?"
Ms Allen: "No – it's not a lie."
Mr Hodge: "And it's a lie when you suggest that the options paper wasn't deliberately drafted so as to direct the QPS towards choosing option two?"
Ms Allen: "No."
Mr Hodge: "And it's a lie isn't it when you suggest that you were confident when Superintendent Dale Frieberg had chosen to also discontinue auto-microcon for priority one samples?"
Ms Allen: "No that's not a lie."
Mr Hodge: "And it's a lie when you say you didn't think you needed to write to confirm to her that she wanted to discontinue auto-micro concentration for priority one samples because she'd said it verbally to you?"
Ms Allen: "It's not a lie, but I do see in hindsight that I should have clarified that with her so that I had it in writing," Ms Allen said.
The inquiry was shown an internal chat log which Mr Hodge said demonstrated Ms Allen "thought it was great" that police had agreed to option two – which would see fewer samples fully processed for some crimes.
"I thought it was a great decision yes that they had made because … they would be advising us on which samples to test or not," Ms Allen said.
"You were happy that they had chosen option two?" Mr Hodge asked.
"Because we could spend our time to get them better results faster," Ms Allen replied.
Mr Hodge also accused Ms Allen of lying in her evidence about an "update paper" the lab was preparing for police earlier this year about DNA testing.
He rejected Ms Allen's explanation that she asked her colleague Mr Howes to hold off on raising an official project for the paper because she thought there might be a wider review of the lab.
"I have to put to you that the explanation that you're giving as to why you told Mr Howes to hold off from raising a project is a lie – do you accept that?" Mr Howes said.
"It's not a lie – no I don't accept that," Ms Allen responded.
Mr Hodge said the real reason Ms Allen did not want to raise a project was because if might then come under scrutiny and be revealed to other scientists in the laboratory – at least one of whom had held concerns about processes for years.
Ms Allen's legal team has not yet had the opportunity to put questions to her. The inquiry continues.
Advice 'did not reflect seriousness' of lab scandal
Her evidence comes as the state opposition used Question Time in parliament to press the government on the timeliness of its response to DNA testing concerns.
Asked why it took "six months for [him] to ask for a briefing", Police Minister Mark Ryan said when reports were made public, he did seek information from police.
"I sought information from the QPS, information was provided, and, as I've said publicly, the information that was provided to both me and the Commissioner did not reflect the seriousness of this matter," he said.
"Nonetheless, the seriousness of this matter has now prompted a commission of inquiry."
Asked by the LNP if she could "guarantee that by not calling this inquiry earlier hasn't compromised victims getting justice", Health Minister Yvette D'Ath said she took the advice given to her at the time the government announced a review of the lab.
"When I became aware of the submissions … that showed that the QPS had actually asked for additional tests and were showing results much higher than the advice I had been given up until that time ... This government moved very quickly to initiate a commission of inquiry," she said.
