Conflicting accounts have emerged about a meeting between Peter Dutton and the Indigenous voice referendum working group after a key member of the group said the opposition leader’s personal views showed they were “not that far apart” on the voice.
Dutton said on Friday the Indigenous voice referendum is on track to fail, blaming the prime minister, Anthony Albanese, for a “conscious decision” to withhold detail. Labor has said the detail is still being developed.
But working group member Thomas Mayo said Dutton told the meeting he supports constitutional recognition, believes the voice is the “right thing to do” and agreed there is “a need for structural and systemic change”.
Mayo told Guardian Australia he felt Dutton’s views expressed to the meeting were at odds with his public statements.
“There’s a contradiction there,” he said. “I think it’s got more to do with the pressures that he is under from the party room. So there’s the right thing to do, versus the politics.”
Mayo said Dutton understood that calls for more detail on the voice model were inconsistent with the aims of the referendum question, which was to enshrine the principle of a voice, not a model.
Mayo said Dutton “did not deny that this is the way it works”.
“We asked him if he understands that even if we gave them all the detail that they wanted, the [detail] is still subject to the parliament deciding the legislation post-referendum … and that was not denied,” Mayo said.
Dutton has been approached for comment.
Mayo said the working group made it “abundantly clear” to the opposition leader that “we are sick of our lives being used as a political football”.
“It’s time to stand up,” he said.
Later on Friday, a second working group member came forward to dispute Dutton’s version of events. The cochair of the Victorian First Peoples’ Assembly, Marcus Stewart, accused Dutton of “playing politics” with Indigenous people’s lives.
“We’re not interested in Peter’s political point scoring. We’re interested in improving the lives of our people,” Stewart said. “So we want to work with him, but you can’t say one thing to us, then walk out side and say something completely different. It’s disingenuous. It’s why our people don’t trust governments or oppositions and I think he needs to come back to the table in good faith.”
Labor has warned Dutton’s commentary is unhelpful and that it believes the referendum is on track. The Indigenous Australians minister, Linda Burney, on Friday pleaded with Dutton to stay engaged in the process and said he had asked her not to attend the meeting.
Labor ministers were asked not to attend the meeting so a private exchange could take place between the working group and Dutton and the shadow attorney general, Julian Leeser.
It is understood Leeser had written to Burney on Wednesday to thank her for a recent phone call and to request a private meeting with the group, which was agreed.
Asked on Friday whether he thinks the referendum will fail, Dutton first thanked the working group members for their engagement and the “constructive discussion”.
“We were frank in our assessment that our belief is the way in which the prime minister has just not been across the detail when it comes to the voice … I think the voice is not going to get up, it’s not going to be successful,” Dutton told reporters in Wantirna South in the electorate of Aston.
“That’s because the prime minister has had this half-hearted effort in relation to just not explaining the detail, not being across the detail.
“And I think it’s tough for a lot of Australians when they’re being asked to make a change to the constitution, our nation’s founding document, and yet they don’t have the detail from our prime minister.
“The prime minister is making a conscious decision to withhold that information.”
On Friday the Labor frontbencher Jason Clare was asked if Dutton’s commentary was helpful. “No, it’s not,” Clare replied.
“I just urge Peter Dutton, don’t make the same mistake again,” he told reporters in Canberra. “This week Peter Dutton apologised for turning his back on Aboriginal Australians. Don’t make the same mistake again.
“Peter, you don’t want to be looking back in 15 years’ time and apologising for doing the same thing.”
Asked about Dutton’s view the referendum will fail, Burney told reporters in Canberra she would not “comment publicly on discussions within the working group”.
“But I will say that we are on track to introduce the constitution alteration bill in parliament in March.
“And then there’ll be a Senate inquiry, a committee process around which the bill will be examined, which is very normal, as you know. People will be able to make submissions.”
“And I say to Mr Dutton: please stay engaged with the working group. That is certainly the desire of the working group.”
Burney said it was unfortunate that she had been asked not to attend the meeting “so I wasn’t actually there to hear what he had to say”.
Burney urged “all parliamentarians” to remain engaged with the voice referendum, which aims to recognise 65,000 years of Indigenous history and to improve life outcomes for First Nations people.
Asked if the government could limit the voice to representations to parliament – but not the executive – to win conservatives’ support, Burney replied she would take direction from the working group, which will make a final decision at its next meeting.
Burney said the government “will not get ahead of the working group” because it was important for them to make decisions about the question and amendments.
“I am very sure that the momentum that’s gathering behind the voice and the decency of the Australian public will see a successful referendum.”
On Thursday Leeser told reporters that Labor members were asked to leave to “take the politics out of the meeting”.
“We wanted to have a free exchange between the members of the referendum working group where they could ask us anything, and we could ask them anything.”
