When you've spent nearly 60 years in show business, you might be justified in thinking about cutting back or hanging it up. But for "Virgin River" star Annette O'Toole, other people's retirements are her golden opportunities.
"As you get older," she said during our recent "Salon Talks" conversation, "more actresses just say, I don't want to do this anymore.' And if you just stick in there, you get some parts."
Over the years, those parts have sent her into the orbit of the man from Krypton, as Lana Lang in "Superman III" and Martha Kent on "Smallville." These days, she's better known for Netflix's long-running juggernaut, as Virgin River's indomitable mayor Hope McCrea.
Now, with her character on solid ground after romantic turbulence and a life-threatening traumatic brain injury, O'Toole is still impressed at the show's devoted fandom. "I knew it was going to be popular. I knew it would do well," she observes as the series enters its sixth season. (It's already been renewed for a seventh.) But she adds, "I had no idea it would do what it's done."
Watch my conversation with O'Toole here, or read it below, to hear more about her Oscar-nominated songwriting turn with husband Michael McKean for "A Mighty Wind," why she doesn't watch her own show, and how after two iconic roles within the Superman universe, she has no interest in James Gunn's new superhero reboot. "I've done my time," she says. "That's it."
The following conversation has been edited and clarity and length.
Your character, like everybody in Virgin River, has been through it. When we meet you now in this new season, you're in a different place. Tell me about where we meet Hope now.
She's in the best place she's been since the very beginning. Not "no more traumatic brain injury," because you never fully get over that. I had a little issue with that, because I thought, "This is quick for her to be so recovered." Especially at her age, you don't recover as quickly.
They wanted her back being in the town and in everybody's business like she's been, so I've had to deal with that. Sometimes I play a scene with a splitting headache and people don't even know, but I know, so that makes some sense.
It's a short season, so it takes, I think, three and a half weeks to get from the beginning of Season 6 to the end and the culmination of the big wedding. There's not enough time for her to get into too much trouble, but she gets into some. She and Doc [Tim Matheson] have a little issue about something, but it doesn't last long. This season is about getting our two lovebirds together, and we do it and the whole town's behind it. It's nice to see this community not having to deal with so much trauma for once. There's still some trauma. It's a journey.
You've got to still have some trauma, but there's a different tone this season.
There is. I don't know if it'll last. Who knows? We'll see what's in store for Season 7.
Tell me about when you were first approached about this show. What was it that drew you to it? Because you seem to be pretty selective in the things you do.
I don't know if I am or not. I've been lucky, and I've tried not to repeat myself too much, and like you say, I can do musical stuff. As you get older, more actresses just say, "I don't want to do this anymore." And if you just stick in there, you get some parts. That's what happened.
Sue Tenney, who was our original writer and showrunner, called me, and I knew that Tim [Matheson] was involved. I knew that if it was something Tim was in, that it was something I wanted to be in, because I've worked with Tim, known him a long time, and I just loved the idea of it.
I wasn't crazy about going to Vancouver again, but who knew if it was going to be successful? It could have been a one-season thing, 10 episodes and you're out. It's like my friend [and "Smallville" co-star] John Glover says, it's the golden handcuffs. You get to be on this great show and do fun work, but you're also away from your family. It's only four months of the year, so listen, I have nothing to complain about. I'm very, very excited to be part of it.
You've talked about Tim Matheson. You've been playing married couples for 50 years now.
Pretty much. We played a married couple, then we played an engaged couple, and now we're a married couple again. Every other time. We're not quite married.
There was a period on the show where you were not quite married either.
Well, we've always been married. We've never been officially divorced. People say, "When are they going to get married again?" I say, "They've never not been married since you've known them, and they renewed their vows already." People say, "When are you going to renew?" We did that under a montage, so maybe you didn't quite figure it out.
The other thing about this show is how it resonates on so many levels with people. Were you surprised when it became the thing that it has become almost instantly, almost from the day it dropped?
I knew it was going to be popular. I knew it would do well. I had no idea it would do what it's done. Everywhere I go, I'm recognized. I've done some other things years ago that I was visible for, but this is something else, and people love it. They're genuinely happy to see me and excited to talk about the show, and there's not much I can say about it. It's like, "Yes, when you see it, that's what it is. We all look like we're having a good time. We are." They're so involved.
I could never have foreseen this. My husband and I wanted to watch the new "Beatles '64" the other night. We watched the trailer and he said, "That phenomenon will never happen again."
We have Taylor Swift and stuff like that, but that kind of world-changing overnight? I remember I was in grade school when I heard about The Beatles. I went to school one morning and suddenly people were running in the hallways saying, "The Beatles." I said, "What's that?" I thought they were talking about bugs in the school or something.
Anyway, a show that becomes this popular with so many age groups and so many types of people all over the world, it's really interesting. It doesn't change my life, but I'm grateful for it. It sounds like I'll have a paycheck for a little bit longer.
Recently we have seen how strongly people feel about their health care in this country, and this is a show that also deals with that. You see it from both sides. Many of the characters have been patients, have had medical emergencies. You also see it from the side of the providers and the frustrations they have. Do you think that's an element of it as well, that people connect with it in that level of sickness, injury, dealing with doctors?
You know, I hadn't thought of that. I was just thinking that it was the drama and the love and all the stuff that happens in the beautiful scenery, but you're right. I think maybe that is an issue that people are interested in. Now, after people see Season 6 and see the end of it, they'll realize it going into Season 7. I hope they pursue that more. I haven't talked to the writers about what they're doing, but I do hope they pursue that because especially for my character and for Tim's character, it's something we can delve into that's important.
Without giving anything away, you set up that there will be some examinations of the health care industry to come.
Right.
There's a moment in this season where a character talks to you about the lengths you go for love, and he's speaking to your character.
Who says that? Do you remember?
Doc tells you that.
I don't watch it. I don't. I'm sorry. People get mad at me for not watching it, but I cannot. I can't watch myself, and I've already done it. It doesn't help me to go back and look at it. Normally in your day, you see somebody and you have a conversation. You can't go back and look at it. Actors can do that, or directors and writers, but it's not fair. I just feel like I've seen myself on film enough. Anyway, thank you for reminding me.
It's a beautiful, lovely scene, and it made me think. It feels like that could apply to you as well, because you have gone to lengths for love. You stepped away from this very successful show, and you did it for love. Talk to me about that.
It was right at the beginning of COVID, and we were getting ready to go back for Season 3. I'm in LA, and it's getting closer and closer to time. I'm thinking, "What am I going to do?" My mother's now 99, so then she was 96 or 95. What scared me was there was no vaccine. Canada was extremely strict about it, good for them, so I was afraid about getting to Vancouver and not being able to come home, or getting sick up there and having to stay. Not so much being sick and being alone with that, but being separated and not knowing when I could get home, and nobody could come up and be together.
Michael, my husband, was just beside himself. I thought he was going to have a heart attack. He was so worried about my going. He was as upset as I've ever seen him. Finally, they said, "OK, we've got to make flight arrangements for you."
He's talking about my going and being separate, all that stuff, and I said, "I don't have to go." He said, "Yes, you do. You've got a contract. You have to go." I said, "No, no, no. This is an act of God if there ever was one, this thing that we're dealing with, and we have no idea what it is." We didn't know how it was communicated. We didn't know anything then.
I said, "I don't think I can do it," so I called Sue and told her. It was really hard, and I felt like I was letting everybody down. But I thought, "I'm always the one there. I'm always the one who's right there on time. This is something else. This is a life thing, a choice, and it's really about my family."
9/11 is very connected to it to me because I was in Vancouver when 9/11 happened. I'd flown up the day before it happened. All airports were closed, so maybe it was like a sense memory thing. I get chills now thinking about it.
She said, "Oh, would you?" I thought they were going to fire me. I didn't go, and she was kind enough and Netflix was nice enough to want me to stay present in the show, so they couldn't even send a crew to my house. My daughter is very savvy with a camera, and she can do anything on a set. She's a set decorator now but she's been everything, so she came over and filmed four scenes on my phone.
Monika Mitchell was the director for one of them, and she did a location shoot through my house. We walked through the entire house, and she said it was supposed to be in South Carolina after a hurricane. I have this one wall where some ivy was taken down and it just ripped all the paint off. It was horrible. I said, "This wall is perfect." You look out that window and see that. It was hard. It was weird not to be involved in something, but I was glad I was still kind of in it.
This is not the first time you have walked away from a big thing as well — a show called "Smallville."
Well, I finished my contract. I signed on for six, I did six, and then I came back for a couple of guest star things. Who knew how long it was going to go? I felt my character had done everything she was going to do and more. They were grasping at straws trying to keep me in the show, and it was lovely. It was really fun.
The best thing for me that came out of that was my friendship with John Glover. We would go on the plane back and forth together all the time, because we were both commuting from LA. My kids were in high school, and his husband was back here, and we were constantly on the plane together. That's where we became close.
I saw a clip of you talking on the "TalkVille" podcast about your biggest regret about that show. It had to do with Christopher Reeve.
I never understood it. I should have picked up a phone and called the producers and said, "What are you thinking? You've got the prior Lana Lang and Superman. Why aren't you putting them in a scene together?" It kind of broke my heart. I felt like it was like, "If they don't see, I'm not going to tell them. They don't understand." Yeah, and so who's regretting it? Not them. Because I knew it would be the last time I'd ever get to see Chris, I'm very sad about that. [Reeve died in October of 2004, three years after the debut of "Smallville."]
You are so indelibly connected with the Superman world. You're two iconic characters, Annette. Nobody else can say that. I wonder how you feel about the Superman world now. There's another movie coming out next year.
They come out every freaking year, don't they? My God. They do.
They do. With different Supermans.
Yeah. How do you keep it straight?
I was going to say, do you keep it straight? Do you keep abreast of the Supermans?
No, I don't. You know, I've done my time. That's it.
You are also a songwriter. You mentioned 9/11. I want to ask how you and your spouse wound up becoming Oscar-nominated songwriters for "A Kiss at the End of the Rainbow."
Right after that event [9/11], I couldn't get a flight back from Vancouver so I drove back [to Los Angeles]. I almost made it in one trip but I didn't. I left at four or five in the morning in this rental car, but I had to stop in Redding because I couldn't see anymore, and I was so upset anyway. I got permission from the unit production manager. I said, "You're not going to need me, right?" He said, "No, no, no. We're not going to need you for at least four days." I said, "I'm going home. I'm driving." He said OK.
I get home, the second I get home, they call me and say, "We need you tomorrow." I said, "You gave me permission to come home. I told you I was driving. I can't get a flight. I can't even charter a flight. You're going to have to wait two days." I'm so mad, and I don't do this. I'm always the good girl, and I show up and do my job. This was maddening. Michael said, "Well, OK. I'll come with you," so we turned around and drove back.
In between Portland and Seattle, I had this melody in my head that I couldn't get out of my head. I said, "Am I making this up, or is this something old?" He knows every song ever written. I hummed it to him, and he said, "I think you're making that up." We started putting little lyrics to it, just to hold it so we would remember, because it's 2001. We didn't have recording devices on our phones and all that stuff, so we were trying to remember it until we got to a hotel or to Vancouver, So, "Dah-dah-dah, Potato's in the paddywagon, blah, blah." I said, "Yeah, but Potato's got to be a girl, and it's got to be about that's her nickname." We just started making up the stupid song.
We got there, we recorded it on something. He was writing music for "A Mighty Wind" with Chris Guest and Eugene Levy and everybody else who was in the movie. He said, "I think this might work. Let's send it to Chris." He sent it to Chris, and Chris loved it. He said, "Yeah, that'll work for The New Main Street Singers." He asked Michael, "Would you like to write this song that's the signature song? It's for Mitch & Mickey and it has to have a kiss in it. You have to mention kiss in the song." Michael told me about it. He said, "You want to write it with me?" I said, "Sure."
When we finally both got home, we sat down at the piano and wrote it like in an hour, and finished it on the walk with the dog, so about an hour and a half. It's kind of based on us, as a lot of our songs are. Then he wrote a lot of music for that movie, but "Fare Away. " The sea shanty, the music was written by C.J. Vanston, who is the musical genius who does all the Spinal Tap stuff and all Chris's movies. He had this melody, and so we had a Patrick O'Brian book we took off the shelf and looked up every nautical term we could see. We threw it in the song, and it was really fun.
There you have it. That's how you get an Oscar nomination.
Well, it has to be a good song. The thing about the song, though, was when we first sang it for Chris, he said, "I don't think this will work. It's too good. It's like a real song." It is, and we felt like that's why it worked. [Guest's wife] Jamie Lee Curtis was there and said, "No, that's the song." I think her little nudge helped.
Thank you, Jamie Lee Curtis.
