To believe or not to believe. That is the question.
It sits squarely at the heart of "Fallen Idols: Nick and Aaron Carter," Investigation Discovery's docuseries that delves into sexual assault allegations made against Backstreet Boys member Nick Carter through interviews with his accusers.
Key among those participants is Melissa Schuman, who was a member of the late '90s and early aughts girl group Dream as a teenager. In 2017, at the height of the #MeToo movement, Schuman published a blog post claiming that Carter had raped her at his Santa Monica apartment in 2003. In "Fallen Idols," Schuman's account of her experience, coupled with testimony from Carter's other accusers and the intense backlash all the women received, underscores the challenges faced by accusers who come forward against high-profile figures with vehement, dedicated fanbases.
"You're now seeing a new wave of people being accused who now are affirmatively going after their accusers," Michael Hirschorn, executive producer of "Fallen Idols," tells Salon. "And this story, I think, is pretty remarkable in terms of the degree of aggression and vitriol in the responses."
According to Hirschorn, the social and legal reckoning spurred by #MeToo in film and television is something the music industry has not necessarily seen yet. "I was really struck how over the past eight years . . . that the film and TV business had really been profoundly transformed by the #MeToo accusations," he says. "And it felt that it had really been reformed; whereas the music business felt like it was kind of operating pretty much as is. And a lot of the people who were running the music business in the aughts, '90s — even the '80s — are still there. So there are a lot of stories still to be told. And the music business, everybody knows, is a tough and uncompromising place, and especially a tough place for young women. So it felt that that was a timely and important story."
Separate from serving as an exposé of the allegations Nick Carter faces, "Fallen Idols" also examines younger brother Aaron Carter's mental health and substance abuse issues as well as the Carter family's reportedly fraught dynamic, providing new insights into the dark underbelly of meteoric stardom for young stars. "We also wanted to look at the way young men who come up in this industry are treated and the way that both of those things influence the choices that people make and that many people of that generation will potentially empathize and relate to," says "Fallen Idols" showrunner Elissa Halperin.
Check out the full interview with Hirshcorn and Halperin below, in which they discuss how "Fallen Idols" came to be, the mixed blessing of growing up in the spotlight, and the complexities of going public in the digital age.
The following interview has been edited for length and clarity.
Michael Hirschorn: The project started with an excellent British producer named Natasha Bowler, who had been investigating for various European outlets, #MeToo issues in the music business. She's the person who initially got in contact with the three women and really built trust over a period of time. So she then brought the project to me . . . and once the project was a go, Elissa joined as the showrunner and really took over the making of it.
The why now for me — I think there are a number of answers. One is I used to run programming at VH1 roughly at that time in the 2000s and was kind of aware of a lot of what was happening in the music business. And I was really struck sort of, how over the past eight years — which I think is probably the time span of #MeToo — that the film and TV business had really been profoundly transformed by the #MeToo accusations. And it felt that it had really been reformed, whereas the music business felt like it was kind of operating pretty much as is. And a lot of the people who were running the music business in the aughts, '90s —even the '80s — are still there. So there are a lot of stories still to be told. And the music business, everybody knows, is a tough and uncompromising place, and especially a tough place for young women. So it felt that that was a timely and important story.
Two other quick things, and I'll let Elissa jump in. There was a specific point, this is like in '22 when we were talking to Natasha. California — and I'm going to get the specific legalities wrong — had initiated a variety of look-back laws that basically temporarily suspended the statute of limitations to allow people who felt that they were victimized during that time period to come forward and initiate civil suits and potentially criminal actions. And there are other states that have done similar things. And so we had a sense in '22 that there was going to be a second wave of #MeToo starting in 2023. And boy, did that turn out to be the case. So I think everything that's in the news right now, you're seeing a pretty significant reckoning around some of these issues. And the music business I think mirrors what was happening seven or eight years ago in the entertainment business more generally.
And then I think the last point, which I think deserves some attention, is the shift in the way that people who are being accused post-Johnny Depp have chosen to be far more aggressive in their responses to these accusations. So the first wave was really people would either apologize or just go silent for a period of time or would defend themselves against the charges. You're now seeing a new wave of people being accused who now are affirmatively going after their accusers.
And this story, I think, is pretty remarkable in terms of the degree of aggression and vitriol in the responses. Now, of course, we're not the people to say who's right and who's wrong. And I think depending on which prism you look at it through, you're either talking about a person who has been unfairly maligned or misunderstood, who is righteously fighting back. Or it could be somebody, if you believe the women, who is attempting to snuff out a legitimate complaint. And these are women who chose in our documentary to not only come forward and, I think, bravely tell their stories but also have been willing to undergo a really brutal legal process that's still ongoing.
When you first reached out for interviews, who was the first to respond? I'm curious to learn who was the most challenging to get for the docuseries. Were there any discussions about trying to get Paris Hilton or other members of Dream to participate?
Halperin: Yeah, definitely. When I came on to the project, the women were on board and Aaron [Carter] had recently passed away. And that had expanded the scope of what the documentary was. So I think we were really looking at it from this full 360 outreach perspective that we really wanted to represent all sides in some form. We reached out early to Nick Carter's camp to offer — we didn't necessarily expect he would take it — but we wanted to offer the being in communication. And they provided a lot of legal documents as well as some voices, which were all included in the documentary that would help to shed light on his perspective. And I think we really just tried to cover all of our bases and be as thorough as possible in terms of anyone who really had a personal connection to the story to have an opportunity to speak out. And we did reach out to Paris Hilton, who unfortunately declined to personally participate.
What were the challenges in making an exposé about this popular boy band member, especially since these cases are still ongoing?
Elissa Halperin: So it definitely is challenging. One of the things to note is that when I came on to the project, and when Michael started the project, none of these lawsuits had been filed yet. So we had our suspicions that they were going to be filed based on that look-back window. But I don't think that any of us were prepared for the number, and the defamation claims, and the counterclaims to the defamation claims. So I think that even with the awareness that there might be litigation, it turned out to be more complicated than I think any of us expected.
And so we just really wanted to be mindful the whole time that these are stories where the people who were immediately involved in them have two very different points of view that are currently being fought out in court and that we needed to report that with integrity and to really do our due diligence to understand that while also giving these women a platform where they felt safe and taken care of to share their story. And I think we approach every story that way, where anyone who comes into our space and agrees to speak with us and wants to tell their story, that we treat them with respect and we want them to be comfortable. And we want to allow them to say what they came to say. And I think that we had a lot to keep in mind while doing that, and we were very transparent about the fact that we were going to do our diligence about that. But that treating people respectfully was from beginning to end a top priority.
What kind of considerations were made or accommodations were made to make the key women participants who alleged abuse feel safe while discussing their stories?
Halperin: Well, I think there were a lot of conversations with building trust. Natasha had built a very extensive relationship with the women. And then when Michael came on board, I know he had to also earn their trust. And when I came on board, the same thing. I don't think any of us took that trust for granted and didn't value it. And I don't think we took it for granted any step of the way. And then there were also support services offered each step of the way as well. We were in conversation with attorneys. So I think we really tried, on the women's side, any time there was a concern or anything, we made ourselves very available to talk through anything. We offered opportunities for them to stop if they needed to.
So aside from discussing the alleged assault that Melissa Schuman went through, the series also shows the pressures that she endured as a former member of Dream to project sexiness as a teenage star. What was important about presenting this specific aspect of her experience in the industry?
Halperin: I think we've been talking a lot as a culture a little bit more about this particular period and the way that women were treated, both by the audiences and just by bosses and managers and publicists and everything. There's been a lot of coverage on Britney Spears and the way that we treated her, on Paris Hilton, Lindsay Lohan, all of these young women. And I think we wanted to represent that part of the story and looking at the way women were treated.
But I think a big thing about this as well was that we also wanted to look at the way young men who come up in this industry are treated and the way that both of those things influence the choices that people make and that many people of that generation will potentially empathize [with] and relate to.
Hirschorn: And also the retailing of extremely young people as pop stars and performers. And it's notable that Lou Pearlman was the guy who initially put them together. Puffy [Sean Combs] was the person who initially put Dream together.
Especially now with that we're seeing with Diddy, [aka Sean Combs.]
Hirschorn: Yes, exactly. Ironies abound. There was the fact that Aaron Carter was younger than 10, and he was touring. And, if what his former tour manager says is true, he didn't have his family around and was performing six days a week on Broadway. And it was only 20 years ago, but it feels like ancient history in a way.
Hirschorn: He was somebody who was genuinely close to these women, who people close to him had really warm and passionate feelings about. I was really struck by the degree to which everyone who had some interaction with Aaron felt that he was somebody that they cared a lot about and he cared a lot about them. But at the same time, he clearly had mental health issues, clearly had addiction issues. And so his standing as a witness and a source is questionable. And the things that he was alleging were significant, serious, and we wanted to make sure that we didn't put our thumb on the scale too much in either direction to say, "Don't believe anything this guy says," or "Everything he says should be taken as gospel."
So I think the trick that Elissa and the team really had to tackle was how to weigh everything properly. And if we did our job right — we can't answer all these questions for you, but we can, I think, raise some interesting questions and hopefully start a conversation.
Halperin: I think Aaron's story is such a tragic story. And I think it intersected with the women's story and I think it intersects with Nick's story and I think it's interesting to really look at these two brothers who were so famous together at that same period and just look at where each of them went. From the allegations that are against Nick — but also, Nick seems to have really settled into this happy domestic life. Nick still has his fame and his supporters. And Aaron, I think, while there was so much warmth for him that we experienced, he really seemed to be struggling with a lot. So I think it was really interesting to look at that.
After Aaron spoke out supporting Melissa and some of Nick's other accusers, whether as a direct result or not, he was targeted incessantly online. How would you say that the digital age has helped or hindered making "Fallen Idols"?
Hirschhorn: I think like everything else in our culture, social media has hyper-politicized everything and turned every conversation debate into team sports. And you have, I think, more in this story than many other stories that are similar to it, this intense fan base, largely composed of women, as it happens, who believe that Nick Carter cannot do any wrong, that he is perfect and personified.
And then at the same time, coming out of the #MeToo movement — and I think it's going to come into play in the story — believe all women, the idea that victims or alleged victims are always right and always to be believed. And so it makes it very difficult to suggest that some things might live in a gray area and that there's nuance and that there's the possibility that a similar event could be perceived differently by the people involved. And that, then exacerbated by all the legal activity that's happening, made both the stakes very high and the journalistic decisions that needed to be made very complicated and involved a lot of debate on our part about, "How do we navigate through that?" knowing that it was possible that nobody would be happy with what the result was.
Notably, the docuseries features several self-proclaimed Nick Carter/Backstreet Boys super fans who vehemently refute the claims of sexual assault against him. And to me, it was noteworthy that they were all women. What were the conversations around the decision to feature these participants, and were there any challenges in getting them to participate? Because obviously, the nature of the documentary is exposing Nick Carter's alleged behavior.
Halperin: So the reason why we wanted to include the fans is because I think immediately when I came onto the project, I was struck by how devoted a fan base Nick had after more than 30 years — that Nick Carter and Backstreet Boys fans were so exceptionally devoted to that band and had grown up with them. And there was so much to that, so much to that emotional connection that I felt like that was interesting to explore, both from a nostalgic perspective and wanting to hear memories of that time and that idea of, "This is the first person I fell in love with. Everything was about this." And I think a lot of people can relate to that. And then I think their devotion, and maybe not even all these specific women, but the fan base's devotion to Nick's reputation and Nick's guilt or innocence feels so personal. And I think we felt like that was a part of the story. And I think it was somewhat challenging.
We obviously wanted to protect the women who were participating in the series at the outset. But we also asked everyone the same questions about Nick Carter and how they felt about the current allegations. So I think we really wanted that voice. And I think we were clear on what our intentions were with that.
"Fallen Idols" shows a fair amount of the online doxxing, the trolling, the death threats and the stalking that happened as a result of Melissa and the other accusers speaking out about the alleged assault. How much did you actually decide to show in the docuseries itself relative to what you were actually exposed to when you interviewed them?
Hirschorn: It's interesting because any time you get into social media, you can very quickly go down a rabbit hole and get into really dark, weird, f***ed-up spaces. And there were a number of avenues that we decided not to pursue because they were so murky, so complicated, so hard to explain. And the web of relationships was so complicated that we sort of decided, unless we had two more hours to get into them, it was not worth doing. And at a certain point, all web controversies turn into every other web controversy. So I think we wanted to really get at the most salient aspects of it. And I think the psychological aspects of it; specifically in Aaron's case, he sort of seemed to invite some of that attention because he was really putting himself out there asking people to engage with him. And so to a certain degree, we wanted it to be understood that he wasn't purely a recipient.
There were a few online personalities, Molly Golightly, Ganval, etc., who targeted Melissa, and then later Aaron. Were these people that you considered trying to have participate in "Fallen Idols," or did you not want to include them?
Halperin: We actually did have conversations with them. And ultimately, they were not a part of the series, either by their decision or our decision.
We've talked about how Aaron Carter's mental health and rapid decline is extremely heartbreaking to watch. What were the considerations you made with his family about showing that? Were you in contact with his family about showing certain footage and sensitive clips and just his vulnerability in that regard?
Halperin: Melanie, his fiancée at the time, was included in the documentary. And she's Prince's mother, and she gave her consent in that way. And also, Aaron really lived his life very publicly online. Much of what we depicted were things he put out there. And so I think it was helpful to see that I think his intention was to show his full self, struggles and all.
There's a "Sesame Street" clip that is particularly poignant that you show because it features Nick and Aaron together talking about sibling disagreements. There's this rinteresting family dynamic and discussion that "Fallen Idols" really delves into. How did you stumble onto that clip? And why was it added in near the end of the series?
Halperin: I think, actually, we were just kind of going through all of our old archive, just as much archival as we can find. I have to credit our series director Tara Malone because she always loved that clip so much. And we played it for Melanie and Prince, partially because of the fact that we thought Prince would enjoy seeing that kind of thing. But I think we were really struck by that as well. And that image of just the love that was there and just seeing where it went, I think for us it was really emotionally powerful to include.
How would you say the "Fallen Idols" team and the accusers prepared for the response from what will undoubtedly be many naysayers? Are the women primed for this, given the intense retaliation they've already received and experienced for years?
Hirschorn: They haven't seen it. We did not agree to show it to any of the relevant parties before it airs. So we don't know. And they should answer for themselves. I think the fact that they've all initiated lawsuits, have been through depositions, which can be pretty brutal . . . And in Shay [Ruth]'s case, in particular, held a press conference. My sense is that they're fairly prepared for it, given what they've already gone through.
We touched on this sort of resurgence of #MeToo that's happening right now. What do both of you hope that "Fallen Idols" contributes to the ongoing #MeToo discourse? W
Hirschorn: That's a tough question to really comprehensively answer. I mean, we're not looking for any specific result. I think we're interested in having a useful conversation about how this generation of entertainers was brought up, how a certain generation of us was taught to behave. And can there be a fruitful conversation moving forward about how to come up with a better method for dealing with these young stars and their proper care and feeding. Because one of the most tragic stories is it's always these very young stars when they become grown-ups who are really, really struggling, both from the alleged accused side and from the alleged victim side.
Halperin: Yeah, I think opening up a conversation that has more nuance and that allows for us to look critically at all sides and all choices and try to kind of find a way to move the conversation forward in a way that isn't quite so polarizing. That can be more respectful and that can be more allowing for thoughts and ideas and nuance. I mean, I think to me that was a lot of what I thought about. And if "Fallen Idols" can spark any of that, I think that's valuable.
The Backstreet Boys were the One Direction and the BTS of the early aughts. What do you expect the reaction to this docuseries will be and what do you hope it will be?
Hirschorn: We expect and we're already seeing a very highly polarized response, which I think is very much in tune with how so many debates are played out through social media and the public square in general. And what we would like is something that's a bit more nuanced and a bit more textured. And we tried to make something that left you with some empathy for everybody involved. Whether we succeeded or not, or whether that's even possible in this environment, is very much an open question.
"Fallen Idols" is now streaming on Max.
