"I questioned if we needed a voice like hers right now," Lucy Boynton said on "Salon Talks." In a career studded with period dramas and a whole lot of corsets — "Too many corsets" — she says, the English actor was a little hesitant to take on the ultimate bewigged and bejeweled figure of western history, Marie Antoinette, for the new movie "Chevalier." "I had a really specific preconceived idea of her," she admitted during our conversation. "Then was kind of ashamed that I had had this narrow view of her and this very misunderstood view of her."
In director Stephen Williams' biopic of Joseph Bologne, the enigmatic 18th-century artist sometimes referred to as the Black Mozart, the French queen gets a more complicated — but not revisionist — treatment as we see the effects of her patronage on the young musician and composer. For Boynton, it was a chance to explore "a much darker side" of the woman behind the "Let them eat cake" myth. The darkness is something that appeals to Boynton, who's carved a niche for herself as a period piece horror star in projects like "The Pale Blue Eye" and "I Am the Pretty Thing That Lives In the House."
And while the actor, who has traveled from Renaissance Italy (in "Borgia") to 1970s London (in "Bohemian Rhapsody") for her roles, loves the "time travel" aspect of her job, she's happy to jump into the present now and then, like her recent turn in "The Politician." But whoever she's playing, she'd rather keep herself a little mysterious. "The less you know about me, the more you are able to believe the characters and just take them as they are," she says, "rather than seeing Lucy dressing up."
Watch the "Salon Talks" episode with Lucy Boynton here.
The following interview has been lightly edited for clarity and length.
Tell me about how you found out about this story and how you got involved with "Chevalier."
I thought when I first read the brief of the script that I had never heard of Joseph Bologne before, and then realized that he is who I've read referred to as Black Mozart. That was the catalyst for conversation between myself and the director, Stephen Williams, about how many people that does happen to, when your name is erased because you're compared to your male or white counterpart. Instantly I was intrigued.
There isn't a huge amount of information out there, so this script was kind of the main resource for understanding who Joseph was. Most of all, it was just a really interesting brand new take on that era that otherwise we're quite familiar with in terms of the French Revolution in Versailles, but know from this very new angle. He was a kind of rockstar of that age, so it was fascinating.
You play one of the most iconic, yet also misunderstood, maligned women in history, Marie Antionette. How did you approach playing her?
"I want to continue doing all of those period pieces, but throwing in a few surprises here and there."
I had a really specific preconceived idea of her when going into this. When I approached the script, I wondered how they were going to frame her because I questioned if we needed a voice like hers right now, and then was kind of ashamed that I had had this narrow view of her and this very misunderstood view of her. So I started the research from throwing all of that out the door and starting from scratch, reading as broadly as I could, trying to reach from every different resource and then started shaving away at what would be most useful for this tone of the film and her as a vehicle in it specifically.
It became two different channels, because there's one where you really start to understand the context for this person when you realize how young she was, for example, when she entered the French court. She was 14 when she was married into that world. It was completely foreign to her, but she had this rebellious streak to her where she would reject the rules and the status quo as was. So she was really intriguing, and I think the main impression of her is so informed and so importantly informed by her context.
However, then for this film, it's a really specific set of circumstances and it is visiting a much darker side of her when the walls are closing in and she starts to clutch to these principles that previously she would've rejected and turned her nose up at. Now those are the things offering safety, so she kind of betrays herself, and that's how she settled on the wrong side of history. But it was interesting, and I think had she been villainized for the things that she does in this film, you would've really understood it The reputation she's had based predominantly on a quote that is incorrectly attributed to her is kind of wild. I think another reminder, as this film is, to really question the sources and the history books and the way we've been delivered information about these people.
Right, and who gets to tell the stories.
Who gets to tell the stories, which frames people like her as a villain and erases people like Joseph Bologne entirely.
It's not a redemption arc for her, but it's about her being complicated and flawed in her own way as a human.
And I think, if anything, it's just understanding you can only begin to analyze and dissect someone's behavior if you do the same within the context of who they are, who they've been and their environment. There's no point in doing it in isolation. It was a really good reminder of that and a really good exercise in doing that. Then ultimately it was more important, I think, to me, to utilize this opportunity to really drive the message of that character rather than staying too accurate or trying to honor her in any way. It was more important to honor the film, so that's why we've got a villain on our hands in this film.
You are a fashion person. How did you play this role with those costumes and wigs? How did that inform who you became as her?
It completely informs it. I think that's why the costuming process in this job is really how I've understood fashion more and how I've enjoyed it more because you realize it's an opportunity to express yourself or alter that or create an elevated or different version of yourself and share a different side. I love doing that with characters. I think with Marie Antoinette, it was such an enticing experience, the costuming process, because she's someone who very much believed in more is more is more when it came to decorating oneself. She was the first woman to work with a stylist as we'd know them now.
"My awkward teenage years didn't have to end up on camera. I'm really thrilled about that."
She was so aware of how many eyes were on her at all times, and I think she wanted to make sure that she was a kind of co-author in people's perception of her. So that is very much informed by the way that she presented herself, whatever that says about the message she's trying to get across. And that tells a huge story about her in itself. So it was a real education, diving into it, but also just so satisfying and exciting, getting to step into those costumes and the sheer extravagance of it all and the new kind of space that you take up both width and height.
I was going to say, horizontally and vertically.
There were a lot of close calls with some flames on that set, yeah. Especially when that much hairspray's involved, it's a walking risk.
You have done your share of period dramas. You've been in a lot of corsets.
Too many.
When you say too many, how does that then affect how you are perceived as an actor — the kind of roles that you get maybe sent out on, and the choices that you make doing, zagging and doing things like "The Politician"?
That's a really interesting question. I think it's very easy to then be seen in that world or of that kind of thing, so it is then really satisfying. This job is one where you get to constantly then make a sharp plot twist, left turn, and do a contemporary horror film or something like "The Politician" where you get to keep people on their toes not knowing what to expect. But I really enjoy that.
I really love doing period pieces. I think one of the elements that I love the most about this job is the transportative nature of it and the fact that it's the most tangible version of time travel. You get a behind-the-scenes history lesson when you do put these period pieces, and it's just so thrilling getting to exit your life and your identity so completely when you're surrounded by the walls of Versailles instead of Southeast London. I want to continue doing all of those period pieces, but throwing in a few surprises here and there.
The walls of Versailles. The Orient Express. London in the '70s.
It's been some great sets.
You are one of the go-to horror icons, and specifically period horror. Horror in a bodice. I can't think of any other actor who's done that as much as you. What is it about horror that you are so attracted to, and did you have a horror movie that set you off?
Not really, because I don't love watching them. I have to say. I mean, I love the classic, classic horror films. I mean, "Rosemary's Baby," "The Shining," "Psycho." When it is this psychological building of fear, so from the very beginning, you instill in the audience this feeling of being unsettled. I think that's so much fun because also the process of making a horror film becomes really analytical because you are more than I think any other genre, you are specifically tuning into what the audience will be experiencing scene to scene. And being, I think, more manipulative of that. But I love a kind of gothic horror genre, because I think, I can't remember who said it, but it's a quote of, "You can speak to any issue if you dress it up in genre." So it's a really effective vehicle to be able to Trojan Horse a really impactful message.
"As a woman in this world, there's a certain level of fear ... so there's something really satisfying then about being the source of fear in these films."
Also there's an element of growing up as a woman in this world, there's a certain level of fear of not being able to walk along the street alone after dark, and so there's something really satisfying then about being the source of fear in these films where you for once are the kind of catalyst for these things. There's a really unique sense of the tables being turned and of power in that. That sounds really dark, but I find that just really interesting.
It is really dark, Lucy.
I know. I listen to that back and I'm like, OK, that was revealing. Save that one for a therapist.
You've said that you have changed as an actor since COVID, with the pandemic and lockdown making you a bolder and more confident performer. That's an interesting self-insight. How did that come about? Because I have to say, the pandemic didn't make all of us bolder and more confident.
And in many ways didn't for me either. But in that department, I don't know, I think it was spending so much time just speaking, other than the odd Zoom here and there, it was just speaking to people in a really colloquial way. People you are very close to, family and friends and loved ones. Suddenly this layer of decorum or hierarchy was removed, and even just not being on set for an extended period kind of reset me in a way. Then when I got back on set, I realized I was speaking to my director in a much more candid way, and in a way less dictated by this hierarchy that I've projected onto the environment.
Especially having grown up since a kid in these kind of sets, I think I had really carried that through, this sense of hierarchy. I suddenly caught myself, and obviously not in a rude way, but just in a way that was much more bold and taking authorship and ownership of myself and my character a lot more. I was surprised and pleased with that. I think it's just getting older as well and feeling more ownership over your job and your role and those characters.
You also started as a child actor, then you took a break for a couple of years and came back into it. What was it that made you decide that you wanted to take that time to be a teenager to go to school. What made you decide to come back?
It was not my choice at the time. It was my parents and my teachers making me take time off to finish my exams, which now I'm grateful for. At the time, less so. I think looking back on it, it meant that just kind of what you're saying, if I had to find out for myself what I was craving, why I was missing it, what elements and what I needed from the job and what I get from the job. I'm sure that changed because as a kid, I did kind of a few roles in very quick succession and loved it. Whereas when I went back when I was 18 and was really auditioning again, it was work and it was much more analytical and self-aware, and I realized that I needed it.
"I realized I was speaking to my director in a much more candid way, and in a way less dictated by this hierarchy that I've projected onto the environment."
I think if you don't need it, then it's a really hard industry to keep pushing through with all the endless rejection and the endless way you have to not take anything personally and you pull yourself up and just keep learning, doing better and all. Yeah, just keep at it. I'm grateful for that time and coming back as an adult was very different. And also just for the fact that my awkward teenage years didn't have to end up on camera. I'm really thrilled about that.
You're a very private person. How do you balance that? How do you create those boundaries for yourself? Especially with the English press being what it is, it's hard to be a private person.
I'm instinctively a private person, so it's not so much that I have to try and remind myself or find ways to do it. It's actually the other way around of, I have to find ways that I'm able to push the boat out and be more open. More than anything, it just made sense to me because, with this job, the less you know about me, the more you are able to believe the characters and just take them as they are, rather than seeing Lucy dressing up as and with these kind of affectations.
It feels counterproductive to put so much of myself out there. Obviously it's a huge part of a job like this, just being able to tell people about "Chevalier" and talk about it in depth is a genuine privilege. So I understand that side of it. I think it's just finding the balance of making sure that the conversations are mainly about the work, so that the work can be the thing that is at the forefront and shines so that I can keep doing it, hopefully.
You have another movie that has to do with music coming out soon.
Yes. "The Greatest Hits."
Tell me a little bit about that.
"The Greatest Hits" is written and directed by Ned Benson. And it is a kind of meditation on our relationship between music and memory and the way that music can be so transportative and sentimental and link you to these points in your past or certain people. My character, Harriet, is transported by music to a loved one who she's lost.
I was sitting with the director the other night and we were reminiscing about the whole experience. It was such a special, enriching process. It's one of those that forces you to analyze your own relationship with these things, like your sentimental relationship with music and how that plays into your own life. That's another Searchlight movie, which I'm very lucky to be working with them again, and got a killer soundtrack. I'm really excited to share it with everyone.
"Chevalier" is currently in theaters.
