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The Guardian - UK
The Guardian - UK
Politics
Andrew Sparrow

Keir Starmer faces rebellion as 53 Labour MPs abstain over winter fuel and one votes with Tories – as it happened

Jonathan Reynolds United States Sir Keir Starmer TUC

Early evening summary

  • Keir Starmer has warned trade unions that the “tough decisions” the government will have to take on public spending will include public sector pay. (See 11.38am.) He also promised a “politics of partnership”, saying that was what voters wanted. (See 10.59am.)

James Johnson, the pollster who used to work for Theresa May in No 10, thinks today’s results mean Kemi Badenoch will struggle to make the final shortlist of two candidates chosen for the ballot of party members.

Considering Stride numbers, looks like Tory leadership final two will be one of Tugendhat/Cleverly versus Jenrick

All to play for at conference for all four though

disagree. Stride numbers will split TT or JC

James Heale from the Spectator has posted on social media the lines being put out by the Jenrick, Badenoch and Tugendhat camps following today’s Tory leadership ballot.

Jenrick says he is glad so many Tory MPs have recognised the need for change, “hard though it may be”.

A Badenoch spokesperson says she has “momentum”, with support across the parliamentary party, more shadow cabinet backers than anyone else, and party members “overwhelmingly” favouring her.

And Tugendhat says he is a “proven leader” who acts on principle and has service at his core.

Richard Burgon, the MP for Leeds East, who was suspended by Keir Starmer in July for voting to scrap the two-child welfare limit, voted against the government again on Tuesday. He said:

I don’t characterise this as rebelling against the Labour leadership or anything like that. I view this as voting for the hundreds of constituents who wrote to me, hundreds of pensioners already in poverty, who wrote to me pleading with me to oppose this government’s policy.

Asked how it felt to be voting with the Conservatives, he said:

Well, I despise the Tories, and I think they are rank hypocrites. But for me it wasn’t about voting with the Tories at all. It was about voting with my constituents.

He said he didn’t know whether he would be further punished by Labour as a result.

That hasn’t been something in the forefront of my mind, but ultimately, obviously, I want the Labour whip back. I’m a Labour person. I joined the Labour party when I was 15 in the mid 90s.

This is what a Labour party spokesperson said about the results of today’s Tory leadership election vote.

The Tories whittled down a list of five people who played key roles in 14 years of chaos and decline, to four people who played key roles in 14 years of chaos and decline.

Their failure to take responsibility for the mess they made, demonstrates that none of these candidates are cut out for the job.

They’ve learnt nothing from their mistakes, and as they continue to fight amongst themselves, Labour is getting on with the job of fixing the terrible inheritance they left behind.

Here is more on the winter fuel payments vote.

From ITV’s Shehab Khan

Multiple Labour MPs who abstained on today’s winter fuel payment vote tell me they were told they would lose the whip if they voted against.

“I wanted to vote against but I would struggle to do my job if I did. Abstaining was the best I could do. I’m so angry,” one MP tells me.

From Lewis Goodall from the News Agents podcast

Am told there were several Labour MPs in tears in the voting lobbies when voting for the winter fuel changes this afternoon.

Groups campaigning on behalf of the poor and the elderly have reacted with dismay to the winter fuel payment (WFP) vote.

This is from Caroline Abrahams, charity director at Age UK.

We’re deeply disappointed, but not surprised, that the vote to brutally means-test WFP was passed today. As soon as the government announced it was instructing its MPs to support it this was the inevitable result, but we would like to thank all those in every party who voted against the policy or abstained.

There’s been a lot of discussion about the government’s decision, but at heart Age UK’s critique of their policy is really simple: we just don’t think it’s fair to remove the payment from the 2.5 million pensioners on low incomes who badly need it, and to do it so quickly this winter, at the same time as energy bills are rising by 10%.

It is crystal clear that there is insufficient time to make any serious impact on the miserably low take-up of pension credit before the cold sets in this autumn, and the government has brought forward no effective measures to support all those whose tiny occupational pensions take them just above the line to claim. \

It’s true they have agreed to extend the household support fund until April and they deserve some credit for that, but the HSF is an all-age fund that you have to apply for, so we know it will only help a small proportion of all the pensioners who will be in need as a result of their policy change.

And this is from Simon Francis, coordinator of the End Fuel Poverty Coalition.

MPs have made the dangerous decision to condemn some of the most vulnerable pensioners to live in cold damp homes this winter.

Many pensioners in poverty will now see energy bills higher than they have ever experienced in their lives.

Parliamentarians and ministers should examine their conscience and the deluge of correspondence they have had on this issue from worried pensioners and back ways to mitigate the pain of the cut.

We and others have given the government a number of ways they can target extra support to those pensioners most in need. One clear solution would be to extend eligibility to those on other forms of benefit and making more support available to vulnerable pensioners.

But the Treasury could also look at a more comprehensive system of support for all of those living in cold damp homes, such as an emergency energy tariff or reform and expansion of the cold weather payment system.

Back to the winter fuel payments vote, this is from Chris Smyth from the Times on how the authorised, rebel-lite abstentions (see 4.47pm) were allowed to happen.

MPs opposed to winter fuel cuts were saying earlier this week that whips were encouraging them to find urgent constituency business that would allow them to miss the vote..

Normally, with parliamentary votes, government MPs are either for or against. This afternoon, however, Labour MPs divide into at least five categories.

Voting with the government: 347

Not voting – with good reason: At least 8 ministers are in this category (see 3.54pm), but some of the other 53 Labour MPs not voting will be in this category.

Authorised, principled abstentions: It is thought that a large chunk of the 53 non-voters are MPs who were not willing to vote with the government, but who were allowed to stay away. (See 4.57pm.)

Unauthorised, principled abstentions: This is the group of MPs who refused to vote with the government on principle, but who did not have permission to miss the vote. It is being claimed that there are only about a dozen MPs in this category. (See 4.57pm.)

Full rebels: Only one Labour MP actually voted against, Jon Trickett. Another five people elected as Labour MPs, but currently suspended, also voted against the government. (See 4.36pm.) But they don’t really count as rebels because they are outside the PLP (and may remain outside even longer after today).

Updated

And here are the results with the changes from last week.

Robert Jenrick: 33 (up 5 on last week)

Kemi Badenoch: 28 (up 6)

James Cleverly: 21 (no change)

Tom Tugendhat: 21 (up 4)

Mel Stride: 16 (no change)

There were 14 Priti Patel votes up for grabs, but the extra votes acquired by the candidates come to 15. That is because in this round 119 Tories voted. Last time 118 of them voted; as party leader, Rishi Sunak reportedly abstained, and there were suggestions the two Tory deputy Commons speakers, Nusrat Ghani and Caroline Nokes, might have abstained too.

Mel Stride eliminated in Tory leadership contest, as Jenrick remains in first place, with Badenoch edging closer

Here are the results.

Robert Jenrick: 33

Kemi Badenoch: 28

James Cleverly: 21

Tom Tugendhat: 21

Mel Stride: 16

Mel Stride is eliminated. And Robert Jenrick remains in the lead, although Kemi Badenoch has inched a bit closer to him.

Bob Blackman, the chair of the Conservative 1922 Committee, is about to read out the results of the second round of voting in the Tory leadership contest.

Here are the results from last week’s round one.

Robert Jenrick: 28

Kemi Badenoch: 22

James Cleverly: 21

Tom Tugendhat: 17

Mel Stride: 16

Priti Patel: 14

My colleague Pippa Crerar says only around 53 of the Labour MPs who did not vote with the government today were not authorised to be absent.

But she says many of those who were apparently authorised not to vote were MPs known to be strongly opposed to the winter fuel payments cut. This suggests that the government whips were ‘managing’ the rebellion (a sensible move), by creating a new category of authorised, rebel-lite abstention.

There are seven Labour MPs who are technically independents at the moment because they had the whip withdrawn after voting against the king’s speech in July because it did not include measures to scrap the two-child benefit cap.

Of those seven, five voted against the government today. They were John McDonnell; Richard Burgon; Apsana Begum; Ian Byrne; and Zarah Sultana.

The other two did not vote today. They were Rebecca Long-Bailey and Imran Hussain.

Labour's Jon Trickett says he rebelled over winter fuel payments because he refused 'to vote to make my constituents poorer'

Jon Trickett was the only Labour MP to vote against the winter fuel payments cut. He has posted a message on social media explaining why he defied the whip.

He says “many more” pensioners will be pushed into poverty as a result of the cut, and the consequences of this can be “devastating”. The government should be raising money from the wealthiest in society, not working class pensioners, he says.

He ends saying:

I could not in good conscience vote to make my constituents poorer. I will sleep well tonight knowing that I voted to defend my constituents.

Trickett is MP for Normanton and Hemsworth in Yorkshire.

Of the 53 Labour MPs who did not vote with the government, eight of them are ministers. It should be safe to assume that these people all had permission to miss the vote (and weren’t engaged in rebel-lite abstentions). They are:

Fleur Anderson (a Northern Ireland minister)

Hilary Benn (Northern Ireland secretary)

Stephen Doughty (a Foreign Office minister)

Maria Eagle (a defence minister)

Diana Johnson (a Home Office minister)

Mike Kane (a transport minister)

Nick Thomas-Symonds (Cabinet Office minister)

Daniel Zeichner (an environment minister)

53 Labour MPs did not vote with government on winter fuel payments cut, figures show

The division list for the vote has just been published on the Commons’s website, and it shows that, although only one Labour MP, Jon Trickett, voted with the Tories to try to block the winter fuel payments cut, another 53 Labour MPs did not vote.

Some of these 53 Labour MPs may have had permission from the whips to miss the vote for one reason or another, but it is likely that most of these are rebel-lite votes – MPs refusing to back the policy, but not hating it enough to vote against, or not being brave/reckless enough to risk disciplinary action.

Updated

MPs are now going to spend the rest of the afternoon debating a Tory opposition day debate – also on the winter fuel payments cut. Mel Stride, the shadow work and pensions, is opening it. It is unusual for the Commons to in effect hold the same debate twice, and there is a distinct Groundhog Day feel to Stride’s speech.

MPs vote down Tory bid to block winter fuel payment cut by 348 votes to 228 - majority of 120

The government has won. The Tory motion to block the winter fuel payment cut has been defeated by 348 to 228 – a majority of 120.

Updated

This is from Newnsight’s Nicholas Watt.

An MP voting against the government on winter fuel change tells me: very few Labour MPs with us. Looks like the whips have sent lots of Labour MPs home

Ahead of the result, here is the numbers for party strength in the Commons.

Labour: 404

Opposition parties/groups: 238

Made up of -

Conservatives: 121

Liberal Democrats: 72

Independents: 13

SNP: 9

DUP: 5

Reform UK: 5

Greens: 4

Plaid Cymru: 4

SDLP: 2

Alliance: 1

TUV: 1

UUP: 1

This list does not include the 7 Sinn Féin MPs, who do not take their seats and do not vote.

Four Labour MPs are conspicuously remaining seated in the chamber, to show they are abstaining. They are: Rosie Duffield, Neil Duncan-Jordan; Rachael Maskell and Emma Lewell-Buck.

The debate is over, and now MPs are voting.

Kendall sets out what Labour doing to increase pension credit uptake

Kendall lists the measures Labour is taking to increase pension credit uptake.

We have written to all local authorities to ask them to identify eligible pensioners, including by sharing data.

We are joining forces with Age UK and Citizens Advice to get to make sure pensioners check and apply.

We have launched a major awareness campaign, continuing right up until the deadline to apply on december 21 – and, yes, that will be backdated by three months – backed by 450 extra staff to ensure claims are processed as quickly as possible.

The deputy prime minister is working with housing associations and supported accommodation providers so their residents know what they are entitled to.

I am working with the health secretary to ensure frontline NHS staff can signpost older patients who may be house-bound because of disabilities and chronic conditions.

And for the very first time, we are writing to all pensioners on housing benefits who are potentially eligible to encourage them to claim – something the Conservatives never did. And, in the longer term, because the only way to guarantee uptake is to make the whole process more automated, we will bring forward the merger of housing benefit and pension credit, which members opposite never did.

Kendall says Labour has done more to increase pension credit uptake in 2 months than Tories did in 14 years

Kendall says in 2012 the the last government said it would merge the adminstration of pension credit and housing benefit – a move that would automatically increase the pension credit uptake.

But, when she took office, she was told this was not due to happen until 2028, she says.

She says Labour has done more to increase pension credit uptake in the past two months than the Tories did in 14 years.

Liz Kendall, the work and pensions secretary, is now winding up the debate.

After praising the contributions from Labour MPs in the debate, she starts by explaining why the government is doing this. It is because it must “fix the foundations” of the economy, prioritising help for those who need it most, she says.

The Tories left a £22bn hole in the public finances in the current financial years, she says.

She cites the Treasury figures used to calculate this sum.

In response to an intervention from a Labour MP about what it being done to increase the take-up of pension credit, Kendall attacks “the faux outrage” of Tory MPs complaining about take-up rates.

Harriet Baldwin (Con) asks Kendall to confirm that, if all people eligible claim pension credit, that would cost more than the money saved from the cut.

Kendall ignores the question, but instead asks if that was why the Tories did so litte on pension credit.

(The answer is – Baldwin was right, means-testing the winter fuel payments with 100% pension credit take-up would be more expensive for the Treasury than the status quo, not cheaper.)

John McDonnell, a former Labour shadow chancellor who is currently suspended for voting against the party on the king’s speech, says the government says those with the broadest shoulders should contribute the most. But the poorest are being hit hardest, he says.

He says cutting the winter fuel payment is a misjudgment. It “certainly flies against everything I believe in as a labor MP about tackling inequality and poverty within our society”, he says. He says he does not want to support a motion put forward by “these characters” (the Tories). But it is the only option he has, he says.

Saqib Bhatti (Con) accuses Labour of using pensioners as a political tool.

The government should have carried out an impact assessment, he says. He says Labour’s own research (from 2017) suggests 4,000 pensioners are at risk of death.

Labour’s Neil Duncan-Jordan is speaking now.

He tabled the Commons early day motion signed by 47 MPs (19 of them Labour) urging the government to delay the cut. Before becoming an MP, he worked as a campaigner for pensioners for almost 20 years.

He urges ministers to shelve the cut, and to set up a task force to look at pensioner poverty.

Kirsty Blackman from the SNP says Anas Sarwar, the Scottish Labour leader, promised no austerity under Labour at the election. So Scottish Labour MPs cannot support this measure, she says.

Rachael Maskell (Lab) is speaking now. She has said she will abstain because she cannot support the measure.

Maskell says, although she cannot support the government, she wants to work with ministers to find a better approach. She says the government should shelve the cut until it has a better solution.

Caroline Johnson (Con) says ministers must understand the consequences of what they are doing. If they take support away from elderly people in winter, some of them will die.

Johnson, who is a doctor, talks about the medical process by which this happens. When people get cold, blood pressure can go up, increasing the risk of stroke or heart attack. Lungs can become inflamed. And there is more risk of pneumonia and chest infection, she says.

She says old people are also more likely to fall when they are cold. There is plenty of medical evidence that proves this, she says.

Andy MacNae (Lab) says successive governments have ducked the problem of pensioner poverty. The winter fuel payments was poorly targeted, he says. A better approach is needed. And he claims that is what this government is committed to.

Esther McVey, a Conservative former work and pensions secretary, says that this is a “cruel policy” and that the government is out of touch.

Welfare changes like this should normally be scrutinised by the independent Social Security Advisory Committee, she says. The government has used an emergency provision to avoid this, she says. She says that could be seen as “evading scrutiny”.

She goes on:

This is good, old-fashioned pork barrel politics, taking money away from the people that the chancellor thinks don’t vote Labour, like pensioners, to hand to people that they think do vote Labour, train drivers, public sector worker …

Labour has basically declared war on pensioners, which will neither be forgotten or forgiven.

Anna Dixon (Lab) says ultimate responsibility for this rests with the Tories. They were pursuing ursuing “a scorched earth policy”, with “the NHS running on empty”, she says.

She says she knows there are pensioners who risk being left in the cold this winter as a result. She urges MPs to encourage people to apply for pension credit if they qualify.

And she says, because the NHS is in crisis as a direct result of what the Tories did, the Department of Health and Social Care should ensure proper winter planning is in place.

Judith Cummins, the deputy speaker, says she is imposing a three-minute limit on speeches now.

Wendy Chamberlain, the Lib Dem welfare spokesperson, says this decision is simply wrong.

Nobody is disputing that years of Conservative mismanagement have left the public finances in crisis. But this cut is simply wrong. It is wrong to strip support for many of the poorest pensioners just as energy bills are set to rise again. It is wrong to force vulnerable elderly people to make that choice between heating and eating this winter, and it is the wrong answer to the challenges that we face.

She says the Lib Dems will be voting with the opposition on this.

Debbie Abrahams is the first Labour speaker to express concern about the policy. She says there are many pensioners in poverty who do not quality for pension credit and so will not keep the winter fuel payment.

She says she would like ministers to consider how the means-testing could be made more generous, or what else could be done to raise the £1.4bn needed. “Please, we must protect our most vulnerable citizens,” she says.

Edward Leigh (Con), the father of the house, is speaking now.

He says he would welcome a debate about the case for changing welfare arrangements for pensioners. He says in the past he questioned some aspects of the triple lock. If welfare payments to pensioners just keep going up, he says, “that is the way, ultimately, to bankrupt the country”.

But Leigh says this debate is different. He goes on:

We are debating the action of a government which has not just gone against a manifesto commitment. There was no manifesto commitment to do this. They actually gave a specific promise that they would not do this. And this surely is a question of public trust … and this is why I think people are so upset.

(This is not strictly true; during the election Labour implied they would not change or means-test the winter fuel payment, but they were very careful not to make an explicit commitment on this.)

He says this is about Labour delivering a “punishment beating” to pensioners. He suggests the Labour claim about there being a £22bn black hole in the budget is bogus, and he said the government decided to deliver “a punishment beating” to make its case.

Meg Hillier, the Labour MP who has just been re-elected unopposed as chair of the Treasury committee, is the first Labour speaker. She is talking about the general funding crisis facing the government, and says she will vote for the cuts on the basis that the government needs to raise extra money.

(Normally the minister speaks at the start of a debate, but the procedure is different in debates on secondary legislation and Liz Kendall, the work and pensions secretary, is going to speak at the end.)

Shadow DWP secretary Mel Stride urges Labour MPs to 'look to your conscience' and vote against winter fuel payments cut

Mel Stride, the shadow work and pensions secretary, is opening the debate.

He started by suggesting that the government did not tell the truth about its plans at the election.

He said the Conservatives stand “full square behind our elderly”.

But Labour is means-testing the winter fuel payment, despite saying during the election campaign they had no plans to change it, he said.

Under the plan, nine out of 10 pensioners would lose up to £300, he said. He accused Labour of suggesting only the wealthy would be affected. But two thirds of pensioners living below the poverty line would lose the money, he said, and there are 880,000 pensions eligible for pension credit who do not get it, he said.

He said the only report into this proposal has come from a Lords committee on secondary legislation. That report says:

We are unconvinced by the reasons given for the urgency attached to laying these regulations and are particularly concerned that this both precludes appropriate scrutiny and creates issues with the practicalities of bringing in the change at short notice.

And he ended by urging Labour MPs to look to their conscience. He said:

Can I … make an impassioned plea to those sitting opposite. Look to your conscience. These measures, you know in your heart that these measures are wrong. You know in your heart that [Labour] has broken their promises and that these measures are going to lead to untold hardship for millions of elderly and vulnerable people right up and down this country.

You now have an opportunity to join with us and put a stop to it.

Updated

MPs debate means-testing winter fuel payments

In the Commons MPs are now starting the debate on means-testing the winter fuel payments.

The government is implementing this measure via a piece of secondary legislation (the social fund winter fuel payment regulations 2024). Normally secondary legislation like this does not get debated in the Commons because it can become law without a vote.

But the Conservatives tabled a motion “praying” against the regulation (a mechanism to register their opposition) and the government scheduled a vote (which it did not need to).

David Lammy and Antony Blinken announce joint trip to Ukraine

David Lammy, the foreign secretary, and Antony Blinken, his US counterpart, have announced they will travel to Ukraine this week, PA Media reports.

It will be the first joint UK-US trip to the country as both countries seek to reaffirm their commitment to supporting Kyiv against Russia’s invasion. Blinken said the trip would indicate the “strong transatlantic support” for Kyiv.

Sir Paul Marshall has sealed a £100m takeover of the Spectator magazine as the backer of GB News completes the next stage of his ambition to control a significant swathe of the UK’s conservative and rightwing media outlets, Mark Sweney reports.

Public sector workers in Wales to get above-inflation pay rises

Hundreds of thousands of public sector workers in Wales are set for above-inflation pay awards, the Welsh government has announced. PA Media says:

The Welsh government has accepted the recommendations from independent pay review bodies in full.

It means teachers will receive a 5.5% award and NHS staff on Agenda for Change terms and conditions will also get a 5.5% rise.

Doctors and dentists, including GPs and salaried GPs, will receive a 6% pay award, with an additional £1,000 for junior doctors.

The Welsh Government has also agreed up to an average 5% award for civil servants and for staff at a number of other public bodies, including Natural Resources Wales and the Development Bank of Wales.

Commenting on the announcement, Eluned Morgan, the new first minister said:

People across Wales have told us over the summer that public sector workers are the backbone of the services we all rely on – from the nurses in our NHS to teachers in classrooms across Wales.

They want them to be fairly rewarded for the vital work they do. These pay awards reflect how we value them and respect their hard work.

But the public has also been clear they want to see improvements in public services – especially in the NHS and education. We will work with these services to deliver on what people have told us over the summer listening exercise.

The announcement from the Labour-run governemnt in Wales mirrors what the new UK government announced in July, when Rachel Reeves said it was accepting recommendations from pay review bodies for public sector workers to get rises of 5/6%.

Early release of 1,700 inmates start of 'rescue effort' for prison system, says justice secretary Shabana Mahmood

Around 1,700 prisoners are being released early from jails in England and Wales today, because the overcrowding crisis means they need to go to free up space for new people being sent to jail. These releases are in addition to the 1,000 or so inmates released every week anyway.

During justice question in the Commons, Shabana Mahmood, the justice secretary, said this was the start of a “rescue effort” for the prison system. She said:

On taking office two months ago, it was immediately clear that we had inherited a prison system at the point of collapse.

That is why our emergency action, which will see certain offenders leave prison a few weeks or months early, has proved necessary. This measure takes effect today …

This marks the beginning of a rescue effort, one which will, in time allow us to rebuild and reform our justice system in the years ahead.

The BBC is running a good live blog covering the releases in detail.

The University and College Union has accused the Labour government of allowing universities to “decay” by not removing restrictions on international students imposed by the previous government.

Following Keir Starmer’s TUC speech, the UCU general secretary Jo Grady said:

We welcome the prime minister’s acknowledgement that universities are crumbling, but Labour is allowing them to decay. UCU has been raising the alarm about the precarious state of university finances for many months. Yet, Labour still refuses to lift Tory visa restrictions on international staff and students.

The government must do much more to protect our world-leading institutions, including providing emergency funding to protect jobs and prevent any university from going under.

As Jim Pickard from the Financial Times points out, Keir Starmer received a standing ovation from most, but not all, of the delegates at the TUC.

And Lizzy Buchan from the Mirror says that there were a couple of heckles during the speech.

Standing ovation for Starmer’s speech but two heckles during it on wealth tax and pensioners.

Paul Nowak, the TUC general secretary, has welcomed what Keir Starmer said in his speech to its confererence. He said:

The prime minister set out an ambitious and very different vision for Britain to the chaos and division of the last 14 years.

A Britain where unions, business and government work together to deliver for working people and the common good. A Britain where everyone is treated with dignity and respect at work. A Britain where work pays for all.

Unions stand ready to roll up our sleeves to help repair and rebuild this country.

After justice questions in the Commons, there is a statement on Ukraine. That means the debate on winter fuel payments will not start until around 1.30pm, with the vote likely at around 3pm.

Starmer says child poverty 'far too high' and scrapping two-child benefit cap on its own would not solve problem

This is what Keir Starmer said in full when he was asked in the Q&A (see 11.33am) about child poverty, and the government failure’s to get rid of the two-child poverty cap, the Tory welfare policy which is a major cause of child poverty.

Although he did not have anything to announce, he spoke with a level of seriousness and conviction that seemed to go down quite well in the hall.

He said child poverty was “far too high” and that he was determined to bring it down. (It is 30%, meaning 4.3 million children grow up in relative poverty, according to the most recent figures.)

But he also implied that simply getting rid of the two-child benefit rule would not be enough to solve the problem on its own, because the underlying causes had to be addressed.

He said:

Alan, thank you for raising the question of child poverty. It is a really important issue, as you know, as the whole of congress knows, and it matters to this government.

Obviously we’ve had to take difficult decisions given the economic circumstances we’re in, for reasons that I have explained.

But that does not diminish, to answer your question directly, our absolute determination in relation to child poverty. It’s far too high. It is our responsibility to bring it down.

We’ve already obviously set up a task force, but that has to get to the underlying causes as well. This isn’t an issue that can be solved just by one adjustment in welfare, frankly. It’s about housing, it’s about education, it’s about wages, it’s about conditions in which people live, health, mental health. All of that has to be addressed, and we are determined to address it, and are already addressing it.

Because just as the last Labour government brought child poverty right down, so will this government. We’ll will work with you and others and everybody in the room to make sure that we make good on that commitment because it is so important to us.

Jane Jones, president of Usdaw, asks what the government will do to ensure that shopworkers feel safe at work.

Starmer says the extent of violence against shop workers is shocking. He says Paddy Lillis, the Usdaw general secretary, raises it with him almost every time they meet, “rightly”. It is unacceptable and demoralising. That is why it is right to make that a specific offence, he says.

And that’s the end of the Q&A.

Alan Crosbie, a teacher who is national president of The Educational Institute of Scotland, says Labour has not scrapped the two-child benefit cap, which is pushing children into poverty. What is the government doing to tackle child poverty.

Starmer says he has an “absolute determination” to reduce child poverty.

Helen, from the Prospect union, who works in defence, asks what the government will do to make the workplace safe for women. She says a survey of civilian women working in the Ministry of Defence found 60% of them had suffered sexual harassment.

Starmer says that is a shocking figure. Reducing sexual harassment and violence against women and girls is one of his mission priorities, he says.

Sonia, a school support worker from the GMB, says she welcomes Labour’s plan to reinstate the negotiating body for school support body. Will the government end the scandal of term-time only contracts.

Starmer says reinstating the negotiating body is really important. He wants every child to get a first-class education, and that includes support staff.

David, a Unite worker in the health sector, says Sharon Graham, the Unite general secretary, said in her speech yesterday investment rates in UK industry are the lowest in the G7. How can Britain get good quality jobs without more investment?

Starmer says this is an important issue. It is why the government wants stability – because that will encourage investment. He says he wants growth, but in every part of the country.

He says he does not just want growth in some parts of the country, with redistribution as the means to help other parts. He wants growth everywhere.

Starmer is now taking questions.

Paul Nowak, the TUC general secretary, says he will take six questions, in batches of three.

Julia, a Unison care workers, says social care has suffered terribly under the Tories. Far-reaching reform cannot happen overnight. But will the PM restate his commitment to a national care service? And will he made sure this happens more quickly?

Starmer says his sister is a care worker. It is hugely important to make a commitment to a national care service. That starts with the staff, he says. Many people are leaving care because they don’t like the conditions. That is why Labour will impose a far pay agreement starting in the care sector.

Starmer is now using the passage about the politics of partnership. (See 10.59am.)

And he ends by saying there are no easy answers.

The crisis we have inherited means we must go deep into the marrow of our institutions, rewrite the rules of our economy and fix the foundations so we can build a new home. A country where growth not only comes from the enterprise of working people, but where growth serves the interests of working people. Living standards rising, not just because we are redistributing from prosperous parts of the country but because we are growing the economy in every community. That is our mission.

Because economic rules written in the ink of partnership will be more durable and long-lasting – whoever is in power. So it is time to turn the page, business and unions, the private and public sector, united by a common cause to rebuild our public services and grow our economy in a new way. Higher growth, higher wages, higher productivity. The shared purpose of partnership as the path through the mess the Tories made, and onwards to national renewal.

We will keep to the course of change, reject the snake oil of easy answers, fix the foundations of our economy and build a new Britain. More secure, more prosperous, more dynamic, and fairer. A country renewed and returned, calmly but with confidence, to the service of working people.

Starmer says need for 'tough decisions' on spending will include public sector pay

Starmer suggests the government’s commitment to financial stability means future sector pay rises won’t be over-generous. He says:

I do have to make clear, from a place of respect, that this government will not risk its mandate for economic stability, under any circumstances.

And, with tough decisions on the horizon, pay will inevitably be shaped by that.

I owe you that candour because – as was so painfully exposed by the last government - when you lose control of the economy it’s working people who pay the price.

Starmer says he ran for election a leader of a changed Labour party, and will govern as a changed Labour party.

And that is why he makes “no apologies” for taking difficult decisons. Britain needs “a new path on growth”, he says. He goes on:

Let me tell you what is anti growth – an economy where real wages stagnated for 15 years, that’s anti growth.

An economy where productivity keeps on flatlining, that’s anti growth.

An economy where the state of our public services prevents people going to work because they’re ill, that’s anti growth.

And so I won’t take lectures from the Tories … who complain every time this government tries to undo the damage that they have done, clinging desperately to the failed model of the past.

And nor will I take seriously the complaints of people who … faced with the same difficult problems, chose to run away from the responsibility of fixing them, a party that allowed the politics of easy answers and distraction to become their comfort zone.

Starmer says Labour planning 'biggest levelling up of workers' rights in generation'

Starmer says the service of working people will be the government’s “anchor”. They will be the people he holds in his “mind’s eye” as he makes decisions. He goes on:

That is why we have already reformed the remit of the Low Pay Commission to take account of the cost of living and deliver a real living wage. It is why we have launched a new national wealth fund to invest in the critical infrastructure our industries need and drive growth into every community.

It’s why we’ve unlocked solar and onshore wind, started bringing rail back into public ownership, committed to a proper industrial strategy, switched on Great British energy, and begun, in partnership with you and business, the biggest levelling up of workers’ rights in a generation.

Starmer says he has to be honest with people about how hard it will be to sort out the problems left by the last government.

I have to level with you, as I did on the steps of Downing Street just over two months ago, this will take a while. It will be hard. But just as we had to do the hard graft of change in our party now we have to roll up our sleeves and change our country.

When we finally saw the books, and with trust in politics so low, I had to be honest with the British people when standing in the full sunlight of democracy, I owed it to them to promise only what we knew we could deliver.

And yet even in our worst fears we didn’t think it would be this bad. The pollution in our rivers, the overcrowding in our prisons, so much of our crumbling public realm - universities, councils, the care system, all even worse than we expected. Millions of pounds wasted on a Rwanda scheme that they knew would never work. Politics reduced to an expensive, divisive, noisy performance, a game to be played and not the force that can fundamentally change the lives of those we represent.

Starmer thanks working people and trade unionists for holding 'social fabric' of UK together during 14 years of Tories

Starmer says Tory leaders used to lecture Labour MPs about “what working people want”, without having the “common decency” to come to the TUC and hear what unions had to say.

That era is over, he says.

He thinks trade unionists for their contribution to Labour’s election victory.

But he says he also wants to thank them for holding the “social fabric” of Britain together.

Even more importantly, I’d like to thank every one of you who held the social fabric of this country together through 14 years where it came under relentless attack – the cleaners, the carers, the nurses, physios, shop workers, drivers, builders, cooks … farmers, retailers, warehouse workers, technicians, teachers and teaching assistants, I could go on the working people – who got us through the pandemic and so much more, the backbone of this country.

Starmer is speaking now.

He says he is the first PM to address the TUC conference since 2009 (when Gordon Brown was prime minister).

Updated

Keir Starmer to promise 'politics of partnership' in speech to TUC, saying that's what public want

Keir Starmer is about to give his speech to the TUC conference.

According to an extract released in advance, he will promise a “politics of partnership”, saying that is what voters want. He will say:

I call now, as before the election, for the politics of partnership. With us in government, with business, and most importantly of all, with working people … the mood is for partnership. And not just on pay - on everything. To turn around our NHS, give our children the start in life they deserve, make our public services fit for the future, unlock the potential of clean energy. A new era of investment and reform. The common cause of national renewal.

Partnership is a more difficult way of doing politics. I know there’s clarity in the old ways, the zero-sum ways: business versus worker, management versus union, public versus private. That kind of politics is not what the British people want.

We have the chance to deliver for working people: young people, vulnerable people, the poorest in society, because we changed the Labour party. So when I say ‘country first, party second’ – that isn’t a slogan. It’s the guiding principle of everything this government will do. We ran as a changed Labour party and we will govern as a changed Labour party. So I make no apologies to those, still stuck in the 1980s, who believe that unions and business can only stand at odds, leaving working people stuck in the middle.

“nd when I say to the public our policies will be pro-business and pro-worker, they don’t look at me as if I’m deluded, they see it as the most ordinary, sensible thing in the world. And I know there will always be disputes, but there is a mood of change in the business world, a growing understanding of the importance of good work and the shared self-interest that comes from treating the workforce with respect and dignity. The productivity gain of fairness which is an opportunity to be grasped.

Voters are split on whether or not the government is right to means-test the winter fuel allowance, according to polling from Ipsos. Some 39% of Britons are in favour, and 42% opposed, the results suggest.

Gideon Skinner, the UK politics senior director at Ipsos, said:

Our new polling reveals a divided British public on Labour’s plan to means test the winter fuel allowance, which also suggests that support for the policy can still be swayed by arguments from both sides.

There are also clear differences by generation and political partisanship. While younger Britons are more likely to support the proposal (although still not a majority), older generations, who of course are more likely to directly benefit from the current system, are far less convinced.

4% rise in state pension won't compensate for loss of winter fuel payments, says former pensions minister Steve Webb

Ministers have not explicitly said that the increase in the state pension will more than compensate for the withdrawal of the winter fuel payments – but they have sometimes implied this, in briefing last week ahead of the publication of today’s Q2 earnings figurds, and again today. (See 9.17am.)

But Steve Webb, the former Lib Dem pension minister, says the rise in the state pension will not compensate pensioners for the loss of winter fuel payments. He explains:

Part of next April’s increase is simply to keep pace with rising prices.

Based on the current inflation figure of 2.2%, the new state pension would need to rise by just over £250 simply for pensioners to stand still.

Whilst an above-inflation increase of £460 will be welcomed, only the further £210 represents a real increase.

And this is before allowing for the income tax which most pensioners will pay on their state pension rise.

Those who lose £200 or £300 in winter fuel payments will therefore still be worse off in real terms next April.

Tory members think Kemi Badenoch easily best-performing shadow cabinet minister, survey suggests

Kemi Badenoch, the shadow housing secretary, is the clear winner in the latest ConservativeHome survey of Tory members into how well they think shadow cabinet ministers are peforming. She has a net approval rating of +49.9, well ahead of two of her rivals in the leadership contest, James Cleverly on +25.9 and Tom Tugendhat on +25.7.

Robert Jenrick, who is now the bookmakers’ favourite in the Tory leadership contest, is not included, because he is not in the shadow cabinet. But other surveys suggest Badenoch is more popular with Tory members than he is.

Andy Burnham backs reform of winter fuel payments, but suggests means-testing should be more generous

In an interview with the Today programme this morning Andy Burnham, the Labour mayor of Greater Manchester, said he accepted there was a case for reform of the winter fuel allowance. But he suggested the means-testing scheme should be made more generous. He said:

I would just ask the government not to rule out the possibility of a higher threshold, or indeed a taper of winter fuel allowance.

Because our experience in Greater Manchester is that pensioners are often reluctant to apply for the pension credit [which they will have to, under the government’s plan, to continue to receive the winter fuel payment] for a number of reasons.

And, actually, the threshold at which you get it is pretty low anyway.

And so … I would ask them not to rule out that possible extra help for pensioners who are right at that cliff edge.

The government has said it is not considering how to make the winter fuel payments means-testing mechanism more generous.

Updated

Reynolds claims reports suggesting Labour might remove free bus passes for some pensioners causing 'undue concern'

In his LBC interview Jonathan Reynolds, the business secretary, also refused to guarantee that the government would not try to limit bus passes for free travel for pensioners.

He said there were “no plans” to get rid of freedom passes for pensioners in London.

When the presenter, Nick Ferrari, put it to him that he was not guaranteeing that national bus passes for pensioners would stay, Reynolds replied:

I’d say, please don’t speculate on any of this, wait til [the budget] …

You have to wait to a budget for all the decisions within that. But I think, frankly, at the minute what we’re seeing is people causing undue concern, just literally saying anything they know the answer from the government will be. You’ve got a budget in a few weeks time, we don’t comment on what will be [in it].

Reynolds seemed to be referring to a Telegraph story saying Labour was refusing to rule out scrapping bus passes for some pensioners. It says:

Lord Hendy, the rail minister, was asked on Monday to promise the benefit would not be restricted to the poorest pensioners.

He played down the likelihood of a change but said given the state of the public finances he could not offer a “concrete commitment for all time”.

The comments are likely to fuel speculation that the government could at some point decide that not all pensioners should get free bus passes …

Helen Whateley, the shadow transport secretary, said: “Not content with cutting pensioners’ winter fuel payments, Labour have now thrown doubt on the status of their bus passes too.”

At the TUC conference yesterday Mick Lynch, the general secretary of the RMT transport secretary, warned that Rachel Reeves, the chancellor, was at risk of being a Grinch because of her spending cuts. He asked:

Why do you want to get off on the wrong foot in the first budget by appearing to be the Grinch at Christmas?

Asked about the comparison on LBC, Jonathan Reynolds, the business secretary, said it was not accurate. He told the station:

I really don’t think that is fair in any way … the first line of the Labour manifesto was, you can trust us with the public finances, even when it is difficult, and people can.

Reynolds rejects suggestions some pensioners will die of cold due to winter fuel payments cut

In an interview with Sky News this morning Jonathan Reynolds, the business secretary, was slightly evasive when asked if he could guarantee that no pensioner would die of cold as a result of the cut to winter fuel payments.

When Kay Burley first asked the question, Reynolds replied: “No-one should die of cold in this country.”

Burley claimed he had not answered her question, and she asked again for a guarantee. Reynolds replied:

I can guarantee we’re doing everything we can to make sure that not only the state pension is higher and everyone is better off but that support is targeted where it needs to be.

An hour or so later, when Nick Robinson tried a version of the same question on the Today programme, asking if Reynolds accepted there was a real danger of some pensioners dying of cold this winter under Labour, the minister was more robust. Reynolds replied:

No. We are making sure, first of all, that we can reassure people by saying that the state pension this year is higher than last winter, and energy bills are lower than last winter, and our commitment to the triple lock means that throughout this parliament pensions will be better off. [See 9.17am.]

And also, alongside that, we’re targeting support at the people who need it the most, not just making sure people who are eligible for pension credit continue to receive winter fuel payments, but the people who are eligible for pension credit itself, and they’re not getting it, are going to get it under our plans to drive that up.

And then there are other things, the household support fund, the warm homes discount as part of that.

Yesterday the Daily Mail splashed on a report pointing out that, when the Tories proposed means-testing the winter fuel payments in their 2017 manifesto, Labour claimed that would increase excess pensioner winter deaths by 4,000 a year.

State pension set to rise by 4% next year under triple lock after ONS publishes Q2 earnings figures

This morning the Office for National Statistics has published a slew of labour market figures, including the figures showing the rate at which average earnings rose in the three months to July (Q2, the second quarter of the year). This is the figure that will be used to set the state pension increase next year, because under the triple lock the rise is indexed to earnings, prices or 2.5%, whichever is highest, and this year the earnings figure is the highest.

Graeme Wearden has more on the business live blog. He explains:

The latest UK labour market statistics, just released, show that total pay (including bonuses) rose by 4% in the May-July quarter.

And under the UK’s triple-lock pension pledge, that indicates that the new state pension should also rise by 4% next year.

That would lift the new state pension – currently £221.20 per week – up to around £230 per week, an increase of almost £9 a week from next April.

On an annual basis, it would increase the new state pension from £11,502.40 per year to £11,962 per year, an increase of £460 a year.

The final decision on the state pension will be taken by the secretary of state for work and pensions, Liz Kendall, before October’s budget. But chancellor Rachel Reeves has already pledged the government’s backing of the triple lock until the end of this parliament.

The Telegraph has headlined this as “State pension to rise by just £8.85 per week”, which is a good example of a ‘glass half empty’ take, but which also illustrates the extent to which pensioners are doing a lot better than they were in 1999, when the weekly pension went up by just 75p per week.

Rachel Reeves, the chancellor, has argued that the penion increases delivered by the triple lock are one reason why it’s acceptable to remove the winter fuel allowance (worth up to £300 per household) from most pensioners. In her Telegraph article today, she says:

We are delivering our manifesto promise to protect the triple lock, so we can put more money in pensioners’ pockets each and every year. The full state pension alone will be worth around £1,700 more by the time of the next election.

Jonathan Reynolds, business secretary, defends government's decision over winter fuel allowance payments

Good morning. Today will be a difficult day for the Labour party, which is asking its MPs to vote this afternoon to means-test the winter fuel payment, but it is important to keep a sense of proportion, and a good indicator of that is the way lobby journalists are having to redefine the word “rebel”. In the Tory Brexit days, and before, a rebel was an MP voting against their government. But today very, very few Labour MPs are expected to do that (the unusually harsh sanctions imposed on the seven Labour backbenchers who voted against the king’s speech have not gone unnoticed), and reporters on rebel count today will largely being trying to work out how many Labour MPs are deliberately abstaining.

Jonathan Reynolds, the business secretary, has been doing a media round this morning defending the government’s decision. Speaking on Sky News this morning, he claimed the government had “no choice”. He told the programme:

We have no choice … The nature of what we’ve inherited and the challenges that that presented required some immediate decisions.

It is clear what he meant (he was blaming the decision on the budget legacy left by the Tories), but “no choice” is not technically right, and it clashes with the language Rachel Reeves, the chancellor, is using in a Daily Telegraph article today about the move. She describes it as the “right choice”. She explains:

This Labour government was elected on a clear mandate of change. That change can only happen by fixing the foundations of our economy. That is why economic stability was the first step in our manifesto, because I know, like every family and business knows, prosperity can only happen on the bedrock of strong public finances.

Delivering that change means difficult decisions, including cancelling road projects that were not properly funded, reviewing the new hospital programme to deliver a realistic plan, and targeting winter fuel payments to the most in need. These were not choices I wanted to make nor expected to make, but they were the right choice to deliver our promise of economic stability. And with that stability we can deliver a Britain that is better off. That is what drives my politics and the decisions I take in government every single day.

I will post more from Reynolds’ interview round shortly.

The vote on winter fuel payments will come at around 2pm, or later if there are urgent questions or statements in the Commons. There is another vote this afternoon which is far less consequential, and perhaps irrelevant to most pensioners, but of some interest to those of us following the Tory leadership contest. And Keir Starmer is speaking to the TUC this morning, so it’s a busy news day.

Here is the agenda.

11am: Keir Starmer speaks at the TUC conference.

11.30am: Shabana Mahmood, the justice secretary, takes questions in the Commons.

11.30am: Downing Street holds a lobby briefing.

Noon: David Lammy, the foreign secretary, holds a press conference with Antony Blinken, the US secretary of state, who is visiting London.

After 12.30pm: MPs begin the debate on means-testing the winter fuel payment. The debate will last 90 minutes, with the vote immediately afterwards.

2.30pm: Tim Davie, the BBC director general, and Samir Shah, the BBC chair, give evidence to the Lords communications and digital committee.

5pm: The results of the second round of voting in the Tory leadership contest are due to be announced.

If you want to contact me, please post a message below the line (BTL) or message me on social media. I can’t read all the messages BTL, but if you put “Andrew” in a message aimed at me, I am more likely to see it because I search for posts containing that word.

If you want to flag something up urgently, it is best to use social media. I’m still using X and I’ll see something addressed to @AndrewSparrow very quickly. I’m also trying Bluesky (@andrewsparrowgdn) and Threads (@andrewsparrowtheguardian).

I find it very helpful when readers point out mistakes, even minor typos (no error is too small to correct). And I find your questions very interesting too. I can’t promise to reply to them all, but I will try to reply to as many as I can, either BTL or sometimes in the blog.

Updated

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