"After this bloody birthday, I’m going quiet for a bit!"
Getting hold of Jonathan 'Jiffy' Davies is no easy feat at the minute. He is coming off the back of a month of celebrations for his landmark 60th birthday, has the Rugby League World Cup to commentate on, with the union autumn internationals looming just around the corner.
Fielding phone calls the day after his birthday, the head is probably a little rough. Throw in the unwanted present of a Covid booster and flu jab — "all in one, no half measures with me!" he jokes — and it's a hardly a surprise he is contemplating a vow of birthday-related silence at the end of our second phone call.
"We've had a couple of parties," he tells WalesOnline. "I won't be having another party for at least five years."
Wise words. As for the reason for the two calls rather than just one, a virtual meeting is scheduled halfway through, were you under any illusion he is planning on slowing down now he's hit a major milestone. Well, maybe just a touch, but nothing dramatic. Don't go expecting a pipe and slippers just yet.
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"The 60th does make you reflect, but I think I reflected more when I was stuck in Dubai for 11 days over Christmas last year," the man known the world over as Jiffy explains. "It was mentally very tough being in isolation on Christmas Day and I had a lot of thinking time over there. You think about what you've got and how quickly it could get taken away from you. I think you get to a stage in life, when you're 60, that you've done the hard yards and you can reap the rewards of where you are in life."
Rugby is what has provided him with those rewards — Davies readily admits the sport has been his life — and there is no sign of him giving up on that any time soon. That familiar voice will still be commentating excitedly on Six Nations matches for a little while longer at least.
"We’ll just see how it goes," Davies says when it comes to his future in broadcasting. "I’ve got a contract for a couple of years. I’ll do that. It’ll be nice to just crack on, see what’s happening and maybe slow up a little bit. But I’m very, very lucky. Nothing will ever compare to playing, but I guess this is as close to the action as you get."
Commentary and punditry is something Davies has been synonymous with for more than two decades, and he credits others for aiding his road to success. It's a thread which runs through all he does: it's as much about who you surround yourself with as anything else when it comes to success. Whether that's the vast swathes of broadcasting icons — Ray French, Bill McLaren, John Inverdale, Steve Rider, Gabby Logan and the late Eddie Butler, to name but a few — or the roll call of icons from both codes in his playing days, Davies believes himself to be just as fortunate for the skills of those around him as his own.
On the subject of Butler, so often alongside him either in the commentary box or the television studio for the ups and down of Welsh rugby, Davies remains, as many others do, shocked at the loss. The former Wales rugby captain and much-loved broadcaster died aged 65 in his sleep while in Peru on a fundraising hike in September. The impact of his death hasn't subsided for Jiffy and so many others.
"We just got on great," he says. "We enjoyed working together. That was the main thing. We all had a good laugh. We used to have great craic during internationals, and I also worked with Eddie during the Scrum V days. There's just so many great moments with him. It was just unbelievable."
Sadly, as well as Butler, another man of influence in Davies' life died earlier this year. For so many, Phil Bennett was an icon of Welsh rugby, 'Benny' as much a byword for the artistry of that entire generation as any other name. For Jiffy, it was no different.
"Benny was a big influence," adds Davies. "I’d watched him train a lot and then I actually trained with him when he was just retiring on the sprint track at Bryngwyn."
When Davies' trial with Llanelli didn't end in success, it was Bennett who put in a call to Neath, urging the club to sign the talented young fly-half. "I’m indebted and Benny for my break in rugby. Even though he was from Felinfoel, he had a close association with Trimsaran. He was just a really, really nice guy.
"Funnily enough, his birthday is the same day as mine. He was a constant in my life. You’d see him in town, the shop, playing in mid-week and then watching him play for Wales and Llanelli was unbelievable. I was at Stradey when they beat the All Blacks. When he opened the sports shop in Llanelli, I’d go in and just stare at him.
"Coming from such a small place as Wales, you find you become friends with the greats as we all come from similar backgrounds. It’s nice when you meet your heroes, the likes of Benny, Gareth, Gerald, and become friends with them."
For Davies, as with so many of the Welsh greats, it is that contrast between humble village beginnings and the esteem with which he is held which is fascinating. The young lad from Trimsaran, who spent his youth watching another raised five miles away in Felinfoel, came to be adored by a nation for following in his predecessor's footsteps: it is an almost simplistic synopsis which belies the hard work involved.
But that mix of village and global appeal is perhaps amplified by Davies' move north in the late 1980s. Heading to rugby league at that time was turning your back on union and, in effect, home. Before union went professional, there was no way back.
"You made your bed and you had to lie in it," Davies recalls. But that exile of sorts only strengthened Davies' convictions to say what he thinks. That same young lad from Trimsaran was now out in the world on his own, running out against Australia at Wembley and garnering more paparazzi, as Martin Offiah put it, than Princess Diana.
"Leaving Wales and going out to the wider world helps," Davies says when it comes to not suffering fools gladly. "Wales is small and parochial sometimes. You’ve just got to say what you think and go from there. It can be a double-edged sword. That’s the way it is. Sometimes, you’ve got to stick your head out of the parapet." Occasionally, that has invited critics but it's not something Davies overly concerns himself with. Even before his move north, he was happy to call a spade a spade, a trough a trough and any form of overlap on the pitch, "numbers".
His first spell in union saw him leave after a tough tour of New Zealand and a defeat to Romania in Cardiff. At the time, he felt the game wasn't being supported enough by the Welsh Rugby Union - plus ça change - and wasn't afraid to speak his mind.
"I thought the New Zealanders trained like pros, because they had sponsors and were compensated if they trained," he explains. "I didn’t think we were on a level playing field and, until that happened, I didn’t think we’d win anything. Obviously losing to Romania, I just thought that if there was a bit more support from the WRU at the time and if they’d been a bit more open-minded about training facilities for the players that we could have been a threat moving forward to that 1991 World Cup. There wasn’t a lot between the home nations back then and England reached the final. I thought we’d have had a good crack. But we went north and things change."
As a result, Wales did little at the 1991 and 1995 World Cups, while rugby league enjoyed Davies' best years. There is a tinge of disappointment for Davies that union missed out on a generation of league-bound talent, while he missed out on pulling on a British and Irish Lions jersey. It doesn't quite reach the notion of regret, though. While he believes he would have made a good tourist, in both the conventional and social sense, "you make choices in life, and you've got to stick to them".
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His views on the modern game are equally strong. He admits to occasionally being bored by the advent of box-kicks and driving mauls. "But then when you get a good game, it's brilliant to watch," he says. "It all comes down to attitude. I think you're seeing more teams in the Gallagher Premiership playing with a will to attack and put on a great product."
In that sense, Davies admits the other code is often quicker to learn. "The key thing with league, particularly the NRL, is that if they see something isn't working, they'll change the laws. They know it’s an entertainment sport. When things aren’t working, league has the balls to change it. I think union is a bit slower in changing the laws, probably because it’s a little more complex with those laws. League is a simpler game than union. And then football is the simplest of all and it’s the biggest sport in the world."
He also, like many others, holds concerns over the financial future of the game. The situation at Worcester and Wasps has exposed how "precarious" things are. Davies doesn't begrudge those players who draw in sponsors and crowds earning decent wages, but he feels a closer look is needed at "income and expenditure" when it comes to, as he puts it, "a lot of average players earning big money".
"You have to be realistic about the value of the overall squad," he says. "It was very difficult when rugby first went professional. In Wales, we’ve been left behind a bit. At first, we couldn’t afford nine teams. Now there’s the question of whether we can afford four. It seems we’re always at loggerheads between the clubs and the WRU. There doesn’t seem to be any kind of relationship there."
He is equally mystified by the Welsh Premiership. "Different teams want different things from it, some want to chuck money at it to win it, while others want to develop players. It's never really had an identity. It's been weird in terms of its purpose. Nigel Walker wanted less teams, so they went and increased it. It's the tail wagging the dog."
Perhaps the only times when his views on the game weren't, as he can recall, that strong was upon his return to union in 1995. "When I came back from league, I didn’t worry about politics. I just wanted to enjoy it."
That is more than understandable, given what was happening off the pitch. At the time, his wife Karen had been diagnosed with cancer. She sadly passed away in 1997, becoming the second family member Davies had lost to the disease following the death of his father when Davies was only 14.
That is what has led him to throw himself into something which surpasses anything he achieved on the rugby pitch. As president of Velindre, he has helped to raise £40million for the cancer centre charity. This year alone has seen him take part in three bike rides, the last of which in America raised £1million. "It’s nearly killed me this year! I’m not the best cyclist but you’ve just got to get on with it."
Those bike rides are an extension of Davies' passion for fitness. Beyond allowing him to enjoy a nice meal and the odd glass of wine, his love of fitness provides a purpose for Davies. But in addition to that, it's something more.
"It’s a sense of achievement as it’s so hard. But you also have a good time and you make it a life experience. People have made friends for life on those trips. I've been touched by cancer twice. I know what it's like to go through it. You’re in a dark place. You don't think of anything else going on in the world until you come out of that, whether it’s a good result or a bad result. That's why I'm doing it. Because when you're in that place, I know how difficult it is."
How you cope with that is another matter entirely. To this day, Davies doesn't know how he did. He just carried on. "I found I just had to knuckle down and do right by my family and children. I had responsibilities for my kids and I had to be there for them."
Of all the people Davies has surrounded himself with, his children are the ones who fill him with the most pride. As he runs through what each of them do — Scott works as an television editor in Cardiff, Grace is in fashion in London, Geena is a teacher, Molly is studying journalism in university and stepdaugher Deia is in school in Swansea — pride is the overwhelming emotion. And a bit of worry.
"Geena's travelling at the moment - she’s in Mexico right now," he says. "She rang me the other week and is on Pablo Escobar’s brother’s tour. Brilliant."
As for his wife Jay, she is currently assessing what's next after a hectic lockdown running a number of care homes. A bit of time away might just tie into Davies' own attitude towards the next decade.
"I’m trying to slow down a little bit, but, if anything, I'm getting busier in those pockets of the autumn and the Six Nations," he admits. "As long as you surround yourself with people who want to be around and have a bit of quality time with them, that's the main thing and having a healthy work/life balance is key for everyone. If you can do that, you're very lucky. The next 10 years is very important. Time goes by so quickly. You’ve got to spend that time with people that you want to be with."
In terms of bucket lists, nothing has been drawn up yet, although he fancies a trip to Australia and New Zealand at some point. As he reflects on the last 60 years, and his on-field exploits in particular, he has found a new lens through which to appreciate it all.
"Ultimately, you play the game to create memories for yourself," he explains. "But when people come up to you and tell you they were there at Wembley for the Australia try, or at the Arms Park, or even in Halifax or Pontyberem, you realise you create memories for others too. That's a lovely thing. How fortunate am I?
"All the opportunities I’ve had are because of rugby. I remember I tore my cruciates when I was 18, playing for Neath. I realised then that you’re only a hamstring away from oblivion. You have to make the most of it. I squeezed as much as I could out of it.
“The same goes for life. I crammed a lot in. My mates say you have one life so live it. I certainly lived it. You just look back and you appreciate the things that have happened to you, playing at the top level in sport. When I reflect on it all, I just hope my dad would have been proud of me."
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