The debate got heated on ITV's Good Morning Britain this week after presenter Ed Balls was criticised for being "ignorant" by a guest on the show. Voices raised and chaos followed leading to co-host Susanna Reid stepping in to calm the situation and defend her co-presenter.
The clash was sparked during a debate about whether, as a nation, we are ashamed to be English. Broadcaster Narinder Kaur and The Apprentice star Thomas Skinner were guests on the show for the topic.
Kicking of the segment, Ed Balls began: "The Coronation of King Charles and the Queen Consort will be a lavish and grand celebration of our heritage. Lots of Union Jacks and St George's flags on that day. But will it make you proud? Apprentice star and proud Englishman Thomas Skinner faced criticism on Sunday for tweeting a photo celebrating St George's Day, with some people online saying it wasn't a good look. So are people actually ashamed of being English?"
He added that Narinder's view was that "it's hard to be proud of being English right now" and that she "worries the Coronation is gonna make things worse".
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Narinder then went on to explain her view point. Saying: "It's very hard. We should have national pride, I feel that every Englishman and woman should feel pride but we can't feel pride when that flag has been hijacked by far-right groups, and what it actually represents is this ideology that by some virtue of a piece of cloth that we are superior to other nations.
"And conveniently forget our history of slavery links, of colonisation, and a history of genocide and everything we've built up... England were the oppressors, they were the suppressors. England have got nothing to celebrate because they suppressed half of the world."
At this point Ed interjected: "We did save Europe from fascism by defeating Hitler and pushing him back."
However, Narinder shouted back, according to the Mirror, saying: "It doesn't really work like that," and the pair began talking over each other with Ed telling her: "Just saying."
Narinder hit back: "It's not just saying, you're being ignorant actually Ed, there's ignorance in that because you're saying 'actually well we saved it from fascism', we did do that however you also should acknowledge how much genocide and colonialism and theft has gone on in this country."
Ed responded: "You said there was nothing to be proud about being English and I'm saying..." to which the guest interrupted: "But then you keep forgetting, Ed you keep forgetting, Ed..." She then began shouting over him as he repeated his claims, before Narinder told him he was "conveniently forgetting about slavery and colonialism."
As Ed hit back again, she said: "It's that kind of ignorance I don't like, Ed," and soon they began repeating their points again.
Susanna asked for clarification of her point, asking: "But Narinder are you saying that because England was responsible for things for which we should be ashamed, that we should be permanently ashamed?"
Narinder replied: "Not permanently but I don't like this fingers in ears blowing raspberries."
Susanna interrupted: "No, no, no but clearly Ed is not putting his fingers in his ears," as Narinder hit back at him again calling his reply "weak".
The debate wasn't over though. The pair clashed over the same thing again, with Susanna hitting back at her claims of things being dismissed.
Narinder went on: "As a woman of colour I feel in this country, that St George flag represents to me far-right, racism and bigotry, and what we should be proud of in Britain is we are diverse, we are multicultural, and the good people of Britain will always want diversity and multiculturalism."
Ed kept trying to interject, and soon Thomas shared his reasons for being proud of being British to which she said was pitiful. Narinder was soon calling out "ignorant" Ed all over again, before she shouted at Thomas as he began waving around the England flag. He told her: "Don't start on me," before defending his viewpoint, but Narinder kept shouting over him.
Susanna went on: "You say as a woman of colour you don't feel this flag represents you," to which Narinder said: "It's not inclusive." The host asked: "So what is your proposition, what would make you feel proud to be British?"
She said: "I think all moderate voices need to become louder... we should be a more tolerate country, we are not that these days."
Viewers were distracted from the entire point of the segment though, with many calling out guest Narinder for "screaming" on the show. One viewer said: "Good grief Narinder. Even if she did have good points I can’t hear them because she is screaming."
A second added: "Why is she screaming. Bloody hell. Too early for this," as a third fan wrote: "Narinder, hun, it’s 7:30am I’ve not even had a cup of tea yet and my ears are ringing."
Good Morning Britain airs weekdays at 6am on ITV1 and ITVX.
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