Mike, 54, Guildford
Occupation Musician and landlord
Voting record Generally an anti-Conservative tactical voter
Amuse bouche After school, Mike worked as a lab assistant at a university microbiology department. One of his jobs was to dispose of anthrax. “It seems bizarre now that a 17-year-old was allowed to do that”
Miriam, 29, London
Occupation Researcher, PhD student
Voting record Labour or Green
Amuse bouche Miriam once won a six-month supply of Hobnobs. “I was runner-up. If I’d won I would have got a year’s supply and £1,000. Brutal”
For starters
Mike I liked Miriam straight away. She came across as very intelligent. The age gap was only noticeable in so far as it was relevant to our discussion.
Miriam We realised we are both musicians, which was a nice way to break the ice. I have been a professional singer, though I haven’t picked it up since Covid.
Mike We went vegetarian. I had curried cauliflower and a lime tart. Very nice.
Miriam I had burrata, spring salad for a main and tarte tatin – all delicious.
The big beef
Mike My wife and I bought our first flats; when we met, we were able to live in one and rent the other out. We were both self-employed and didn’t have occupational pensions. For people like us with precarious freelance jobs, it was the best thing for us to do. We kept our last three-bedroom house when we moved into the current one. The mortgage has gone up insanely. For the next two years, we might only be able to pay off the interest.
Miriam I’m a private renter. The purpose of housing is to house people. It’s problematic that the way society is set up at the moment means it’s actually one of the best investments, because it incentivises rich people to put their money into housing and then makes housing more expensive and harder to get for people who need it. You create a two-tier society.
Mike There is injustice in the system. What we are doing is just what we need to do to provide a pension. What we’re doing can be as ethical as you make it, because you’re in control. It’s up to you how much you charge and how good a landlord you are.
Miriam I hadn’t thought of it as a pension plan. I understand the lack of security – my parents are self-employed and I have been, too. But I’m not sure someone of my age in Mike’s position could ever get to the stage where they were able to have a second property.
Sharing plate
Mike If we were making policy together, I have a feeling we would be in agreement most of the time. We agreed there are terrible issues of inequality in the world.
Miriam We agreed it’s important to try to create fairer societies. We just had different ideas of how to get there. We also agreed on the power of music and that there is nothing better than performing a great gig.
For afters
Mike We got into the nature of capitalism. If you’re a young person with a bright idea, you should be able to get someone to invest in you, and they should be able to make a return on it.
Miriam I think Mike feels more comfortable with the idea that capitalism is Darwinian, and the people with the best ideas will get the funding and rise to the top. There are structural factors that inhibit that. On the one hand, there is intergenerational transmission of wealth; on the other, poverty and disadvantage. Levels of freedom depend on where and when you are born. What is a choice for one person doesn’t exist for another.
Mike I would say Miriam was a little more idealistic than me. Without wishing to sound patronising, I would love to check in with her in 25 years.
Takeaways
Mike There is nothing more stimulating than the company of intelligent people, especially when you disagree on things, because that gives you the chance to develop your worldview. It didn’t change my mind about my property – but having said that, I respect how Miriam feels about it.
Miriam Mike said he had hoped for someone conservative and religious, and I said: “I’m so sorry – I’m neither.” I think he was up for a fiery debate. I’m not averse to confrontation, but think the most productive conversations are when you’re negotiating your differences and recognising your commonalities.
Additional reporting: Kitty Drake
• Mike and Miriam ate at Ochre at London’s National Gallery
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