Amrit, 32, Birmingham
Occupation Immigration solicitor
Voting record Always Labour, but now leaning more towards the Green party, or maybe Jeremy Corbyn’s Your Party “if it gets its act together”
Amuse bouche He’s repeating an experiment he did in 2021 when he ran at least a mile every single day – even though on several icy days he slipped and narrowly missed falling into the Birmingham canal
Jon, 67, Birmingham
Occupation Runs a small IT support company
Voting record Tory since Margaret Thatcher until 2024, then went with Reform
Amuse bouche Was part of a damage management team at the HSBC building in London’s Bishopsgate, three days after it got bombed by the IRA in 1993. He was much mocked by his colleagues when he announced, in all seriousness, “God, it looks like a bomb’s hit it”
For starters
Amrit I thought we got on really well. We talked until closing time.
Jon I got there after the longest Uber journey – bloody 25 minutes to go five miles. We sat down, and off we went!
Amrit I had a butter paneer, the vegetarian substitute for butter chicken. They also threw in extra paneer, then some rice and naans. It was tasty, hits the spot every time.
Jon I had lamb, poppadoms and rice, and the spinach thing – I should know the names, I’m married to a bloody Asian! It was really good, I’ll have to consider a trip back.
The big beef
Amrit He thinks Muslims want to take over. He went all gen Z with his terminology, kept saying, “I bring receipts”, but I didn’t feel he presented them, just, “If you listen to this interview, if you listen to this person, the Qur’an says this …” I said, “Have you read the Qur’an?” He said no.
Jon He said that, in any era, you’ve always got the out-group. I see the parallel. But the only difference is these days we have access to way more information independently.
Amrit He mentioned grooming gangs and said you wouldn’t see that with Sikhs or Hindus. I said, of course you would. There are reports of grooming and sexual abuse in Sikh gurdwaras, allegations of abuse and murder in a Hindu temple in India, we’ve seen it with Catholic priests. But when it comes to talking about grooming gangs in Rochdale, the narrative is completely set around Islam.
Jon A significant number of new mayors are Muslim. My local MP has campaigned to get our government to fund a bloody airport in Pakistan. It’s real, but they won’t publish it. [The claim that MPs were seeking government funding was quickly debunked by news outlets.]
Sharing plate
Jon Immigration and emigration is actually a good and healthy thing. But Islam is an exception to that rule.
Amrit As an immigration solicitor, I see at ground level what immigrants and asylum seekers do. They’re not here to steal your jobs or get benefits; they’re here to escape persecution and make a better life for themselves. I’m still in contact with some of my past clients and they update me, saying, “I’m working for the NHS now” and so on. For Jon it seemed to come down to “good immigrant/bad immigrant”.
For afters
Amrit I said Tommy Robinson is a criminal. He asked why I thought that. I said, “Because he’s been convicted of crimes.” If somebody finds themselves in court, the conviction is based on what the evidence suggests.
Jon I’m Team Tommy. He was once a member of the BNP and they wouldn’t let his mates in because they weren’t white, and he realised this wasn’t what he had in mind. He’s the roughest bugger, but he has principles.
Takeaways
Amrit One takeaway is that it’s good to actually listen to what people are saying on the other side of the fence. Unfortunately, I thought what Jon said came down to conspiracy theories. But I think it was great to have connected with a person with different political views. I would probably even meet him for a coffee again – though I probably wouldn’t bring up Islam!
Jon He maintained his composure and manners. I’m sure every day in his job he hears stories, whether they’re true or not, of woe and despair. So I could surround him with facts and put a roof on it, and he’d still swear he could see the light. I’m not being horrible, but meeting him has just confirmed the stereotype of the Guardian reader.
Additional reporting: Kitty Drake
• Amrit and Jon ate at Itihaas in Birmingham
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