Convicted police killer and armed robber Bandali Debs has given evidence against his former friend and alleged accomplice, testifying that Jason Roberts was present and that he heard gun shots coming from his direction on the night two police officers were shot dead in Melbourne in 1998.
Jason Roberts, 41, is standing trial for the murders of Sergeant Gary Silk and Senior Constable Rod Miller at Moorabbin in August 1998.
The jury has heard both Debs and Roberts were convicted of the killings in 2002 but Roberts' conviction was later quashed and a re-trial ordered.
Sergeant Silk was shot three times and Senior Constable Miller was shot once after they pulled over a blue Hyundai hatchback, which Bandali Debs told the court he was driving.
Wearing a khaki bomber jacket and with thinning grey hair, Debs appeared via video link from Goulburn Correction Complex in New South Wales.
He was asked by prosecutor Ben Ihle QC who was in a blue Hyundai hatchback when the two police officers pulled him over.
"Myself and Jason Roberts," Debs told the court.
Debs said he and Roberts were both armed with handguns.
Roberts has pleaded guilty to taking part in 10 armed robberies with his then-girlfriend's father, Bandali Debs, but maintains he was not present on the night the police officers were killed.
Debs has disputed that, and gave detailed evidence of the lead up to the shooting and the shooting itself.
Debs details a partnership in crime with Roberts
Debs described to the jury that Roberts was his eldest daughter Nicole's boyfriend, and was about 17-years-old when he first met Debs.
The court heard the younger man became Debs' apprentice in armed robbery and crime.
Debs said he and Roberts would regularly conduct surveillance on businesses to rob.
"We'd see how many people there were, how many cars, how many workers there were and things like that," Debs told the court.
The jury heard how Debs and Roberts would target shops and restaurants.
"We were armed. We had masks. Gloves. Bag for money. Tape to tape the people up and a knife to cut the tape," Debs said.
Debs said both he and Roberts were armed with handguns for every armed robbery, and it was Roberts' job to watch people in the business while Debs retrieved money from the premises.
'Loaded, ready to go' weapons on night of murders
On the night of the police shootings, Debs said Roberts came to his house after dinner time, and suggested the Silky Emperor restaurant as a potential armed robbery target.
Debs told the court he knew the restaurant, as the former tiler and roof sprayer had completed work on the business years earlier.
He said it wasn't a place he would consider trying to rob on his own.
"It's too big a place and there would have been too many entrances to get out," he said.
"From the back, from the front. From memory there was a lift in there as well."
Debs said he went into his garage and pulled out an attaché case where he'd hidden guns.
"Got the weapons ready, made sure the shoes and clothing and all that was ready to go, when he (Roberts) was ready," Debs said.
"Got masks, tape, the knives, two knives. The [police] scanner."
He told the court Jason Roberts then said to him: "Let's go."
Debs testified that he had loaded two hand guns before leaving his home — one for himself and one for Jason Roberts.
When asked by prosecutor Mr Ihle why he loaded the guns for the armed robberies, Debs responded by saying: "Well because I always load them. Before we went out for a job they were always loaded ready to go … you're not going to go with an empty gun."
When asked why he could not go with an empty gun Debs replied: "What for? I've never heard of that in my life."
Court hears details of dramatic shootings
Debs described that after driving to the Silky Emperor restaurant in Moorabbin he and Roberts were pulled over by officers Sergeant Silk and Senior Constable Miller.
Debs told the court Senior Constable Miller asked Debs to get out of the car and show his licence, which he did.
"He said he wants to look in the boot. I said ok, I got the keys, I seen [sic] Roberts with Silk, then I walked around and as I'm walking Miller has a torch in one hand and a gun in the other hand," Debs said.
"So I walk around to the boot and I said 'look I'll open the boot for you', he said ok.
"I was worried about my bloody safety, and as I've opened the boot, I've pulled my gun out and fired it twice and shot Miller," Debs told the jury.
"I fired straight through my cardigan.
Debs gave evidence that he pursued Senior Constable Miller down the street and fired two more shots, and that he was angry because a bullet had smashed his daughter's car's windscreen.
"When I saw it smashed the backscreen I was fuming, you know what I mean, he (Miller) was flying backwards, he dropped the torch. As he's getting up, I ran after him.
"Miller gets up, and starts firing shots, and then I pursue him.
"He ran past the police car and I followed him, I fired another two shots to flush him out because I couldn't see," Debs told the jury.
Debs said he did not shoot Sergeant Silk, but instead said he heard shots fired from the direction where Sergeant Silk and Roberts were standing.
He told the jury Roberts later screamed out, "Where are you Ben?"
Bandali Debs was known as Ben to family and friends.
Debs told the court Roberts then called out "We have got to get out of here".
Debs told the court he and Roberts drove back to Debs' Fountain Gate home in the Hyundai, listening to the police scanner go "ballistic".
He said there was little conversation between himself and Roberts on the drive home.
"We were pretty quiet. There wasn't much chatter," Debs said.
Debs' evidence will continue on Wednesday.
