Further details have emerged regarding the alleged "toxic" culture at the Welsh Rugby Union with an ex-employee claiming he heard a senior manager make jokes relating to child sexual abuse. It has also emerged the former chair of the Professional Rugby Board warned the union it faced an equality and diversity "ticking timebomb" in her devastating resignation speech.
In a programme titled BBC Wales Investigates: Welsh Rugby Under the Spotlight, former performance and development manager of the WRU Marc Roberts says while on a staff team building event he heard an employee make jokes about child sexual abuse.
He also alleges a senior WRU official echoed the same statement to the same individual.
READ MORE: Welsh Rugby Union accused of 'toxic culture' as former employees go public
"Very early on in that day somebody on the bus journey to the activity referenced somebody who was from a private school and because they'd gone to a private school there had been some kind of sexual abuse to him as a child by teachers etc," Roberts told the BBC.
"I was quite shocked that kind of terminology was used. As we got off the bus the most senior manager on that particular journey then echoed the same statement to the same individual.
"That particular day there was unprofessional behaviour throughout to the point that day was actually investigated by an external HR company."
The WRU insist this is new information and have vowed to investigate his allegations immediately.
A WRU spokesperson said: "As soon as we were made aware of these new allegations an investigation procedure began and proper and due process took place.
"Action will be taken and there is no place for such comments in Welsh rugby."
The programme also revealed details of the former chair of the Professional Rugby Board Amanda Blanc's resignation speech. Mrs Blanc is the chief executive of Aviva, and her resignation in November 2021 was widely considered to be a significant blow to Welsh rugby on the whole. She quit the role because she was "not being listened to".
The BBC says Blanc revealed she was beyond disappointed with a review into the women's game, commissioned in 2021, which she said was insulting towards women. She also allegedly referenced a meeting which was held to discuss an allegation of bullying of a female member of staff but claimed the board spent most of the time talking about how to defend the man accused.
She went on to say she was staggered to hear about an elected WRU member who allegedly said that women should "know their place in the kitchen and stick to the ironing" and that some board members felt it too unfair to take too many free tickets away from him as a sanction.
The BBC claim Mrs Blanc said in her speech: "To have to sit in a room and listen to some of you say that taking away too many free tickets from this man would be completely unfair, was beyond insulting.
"I would say that some of you need to sit down, pause and reflect on what answer you would give to a Select Committee if this evidence was put in front of you? What would you say to the nation when an MP asks, 'does the WRU respect women?'"
The WRU has never published its review into the women's game and the BBC claim that out of 20 areas including strategy, coaching, and culture not a single one was said to be performing well.
Labour MP and former Wales international Tonia Antoniazzi was incensed by the WRU's reluctance to make public the review and its findings.
"What are the Welsh Rugby Union hiding?," she said.
"I believe it is too embarrassing and damaging. No recommendations from the women's review have been published.
"They may have been acted on but they are not in the public domain. Where is that transparency?"
The WRU's former general manager of rugby Charlotte Wathan, who the union recently settled with out of court after an employment tribunal was launched, was also interviewed on the programme.
She alleged a male colleague said, in her hearing and in front of other members of WRU staff in an office, that he wanted to “rape” her. Ms Wathan claims a senior manager witnessed the comment but said nothing.
The WRU claim the allegations remained unsubstantiated following a thorough independent legal investigation. You can read more about the allegations and WRU's response here.
The WRU says it is committed to equality, diversity and inclusion and that progression of the women’s and girl’s game is a key strategic aim for the organisation and will remain so in future, while last year women's players were given professional contracts for the first time.
When Wales Online approached the WRU for a comment we received the following statement: "Our people are very important to us and we cannot stress enough how sad we are to hear about the feelings expressed in the programme, when we had worked with them to find a solution. At the WRU we take any allegations from our staff seriously, in particular regarding the behaviour, attitudes and language described in the programme. If any allegations are substantiated, we will act very swiftly as such behaviour has no place in the WRU or Welsh rugby.
"We work hard to promote a culture within the WRU that values our staff and their opinions and have robust procedures in place to deal with complaints raised by our staff. We follow up on all issues raised, either with internal or external investigations. We reached an amicable resolution, satisfying both parties, with Charlotte Wathan. The terms of the resolution included confidentiality obligations for both parties, leaving us with no option but to decline the BBC’s request for interview on this matter.
"It is vitally important to note that we have a duty of care as employers to both the complainants and those complained against. That duty of care continues and we are deeply concerned about the effect of this programme on those individuals in respect of the fact the allegations described remain unsubstantiated following a thorough independent legal investigation.
"There are two other cases highlighted by the BBC, one which was investigated at the time and reached resolution due to the withdrawal of the complaint and another which was also investigated to conclusion, but which now contains new information brought to light by the BBC, which will be followed up and acted upon.
"Again, in both of these cases we also find ourselves in a position where we can’t disclose private information or details about the investigation and the conclusions reached and strongly maintain the right and proper procedures and processes were followed in each case.
"We strongly refute any suggestion that the women’s game has been ‘held back’ or restricted by issues described. In fact we would highlight the significant progress we have made in this area in recent times. The progression of women’s and girls’ rugby is a key strategic aim for the WRU and will remain so long into the future.
"We are extremely disappointed in the BBC to be asked to participate in a programme in January 2023 primarily to answer comments made by Ms Wathan in an interview with the BBC in October 2022, when the BBC are fully aware that we cannot respond given the terms of the settlement reached.
"We again stress how sad we are to hear how the individuals felt as highlighted in the programme and will continue to work with our staff on making sure they feel valued and listened to. At the WRU we are committed to equality, diversity and inclu1sion. We work hard in this area and employ full time dedicated staff to ensure continued best and proper practice."
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