“You very quickly find out who is a good bullshitter,” says Ben Stokes, laughing down the phone line during a recent drive between London and his home in the north-east.
Stokes has agreed to a chat about the World Cup defence that starts in India next week but we have taken a scenic route, veering into the South American dice game called Perudo that has become something of a craze in the England squad. Andrew Flintoff was among the keenest players, Stokes’s fellow all-rounder having been part of the coaching set-up following last year’s awful car crash on the set of Top Gear.
“We played it with Fred pretty much every night during the New Zealand series,” says Stokes, a Test captain in the rank and file of Jos Buttler’s one-day team after reversing last year’s 50-over retirement. “You can probably imagine it, two or three hours in one of the guys’ rooms, pissing about, everyone talking a bit of shit. It’s a quality game.
“It was just class having Freddie around the guys to be honest. Everyone knows what he’s been through with his accident. It wasn’t just great for us as a team, I think it was great for him to announce himself back on the social scene as part of an England dressing room. You could see his confidence grow every day he was with us.”
Does a game of deception like Perudo – also known as Liar’s Dice – have any transferable skills for cricket? Stokes can’t think of any. But maybe this is a bluff. When it comes to the clutch moments, reading opponents and their body language, few cricketers match him. This interview is predicated on just one such example: his player-of-the-match performance in that mind-melting World Cup final four years ago.
“So much time has passed but whenever I rock up to Lord’s I remember that day,” Stokes says. “Weirdly, I always think back to the six Jimmy Neesham hit during the super over. I was just smiling out there, thinking ‘100 overs, dead level, down to the wire, all the mad things that have happened, what more can this game throw at us?’ It was ridiculous.
“That last ball of the match, the run out, everyone charging on to the field … yeah, it was pretty cool. People think I collapsed with emotion but in fact I just slipped. I thought I managed to style it out quite well.”
A specialism in big games – evidenced again when sealing victory in the T20 World Cup final last year – is why his late father, Ged, said in last year’s documentary “the big moments seem to find him”. A longstanding knee injury means he won’t bowl in this World Cup – Stokes remains cryptic on the long-term plan here – but it’s obvious why Buttler kept a spot open for him to rethink that 50-over hiatus.
“I think that’s just being a middle-order player,” he says, nonchalantly. “Openers set the tone and us guys lower down take all the credit. I just use the scoreboard. If young players ask me how I operate in those moments, I tell them to look up: the scoreboard is your friend. Do the maths and it’s never that bad. Really, anything is achievable.”
Stokes credits Buttler for this approach and, more broadly, is impressed with how his close friend has taken on the white-ball captaincy. Eoin Morgan left big shoes to fill – not least in the field, something Buttler must balance with his wicketkeeping – while his own transformative leadership of the Test side could have led to unhelpful comparisons.
“What Jos has done incredibly well is taking on everything of what Morgs did that he saw value in,” says Stokes. “But he has also really put his own stamp and personality on it. He wants to keep pushing the boundaries. Communicating with his bowlers from keeper is the big challenge but Moeen Ali is really good as his vice-captain here. They’re totally in sync. They’re both very free cricketers and two great men.”
The differences with Morgan? “[Jos] is a bit more stern,” replies Stokes. “He will let us know if our levels aren’t up to what he expects; that attitude in the field. That’s a great thing for a leader to have – to not just hope people meet the levels they set but constantly reinforce them out in the middle and in the dressing room.”
Stokes heads to the World Cup in good nick, that incendiary 182 against New Zealand at the Oval rolling over his form from the Ashes. It was a useful reminder of the time a player has to construct a 50-over innings – “at one point I looked up and thought ‘shit, we’ve got 20 overs left here’ – and the underestimated strains of the one-day format.
As for England’s chances of becoming just the third side after Australia and West Indies to successfully defend the trophy, he replies: “I don’t think it’s arrogance to say we’re a very good team. We’re in the mix. And what we now have in our favour, I think, is experience of huge games – an edge against sides who don’t play as many.
“I know franchise T20 cricket means a lot more players have been exposed to those situations; it’s great for that. But it doesn’t come close to wearing your country’s shirt, billions watching, knowing if you lose, you’re out.”
Stokes is like a moth to this particular flame, the enduring lure of the World Cup prompting his 50-over rethink. The U-turn was welcomed in England but has had one vocal critic in Australia, their former Test captain Tim Paine claiming it was a bit “me, me, me” and unfair on the batters who played in the interim.
“Selfish?” replies Stokes. “I’d like to think I’ve played enough for people to know that is not a word that applies to me. I had to see how I felt after the Ashes. And I was cooked, taking naps for days after it. But once I thought about the World Cup, potentially defending it, it was simple. It was good to tell Jos. He doesn’t give much away but he was buzzing.”
Stokes also claims to be confused about some of the mickey-taking that has come from Australia’s current crop since this summer’s epic 2-2 draw in the Ashes; clips featuring Usman Khawaja, Mitchell Marsh and Pat Cummins laughing about the English notion of a “moral victory” during a knockabout time on the Grade Cricketer podcast.
“I just don’t get the angle to be honest. I don’t get why they’re talking about the Ashes like that. But to be honest, it’s not our problem,” he says, with a practically audible shrug.
“You can’t change what happened – the Manchester rain – but you also can’t say for certain we’d have won that game. But going 2-0 down and still being brave enough to play the way we did – that gave me immense satisfaction. It would have been easy to go in our shells but we took the bull by the horns and threw everything at them.”
This is pretty much what Stokes set out to achieve as Test captain; a style of cricket that deliberately looks to amplify the attacking skills of the talent pool. Asked if so-called “Bazball” – a term he still hates – will outlast his own leadership, Stokes replies: “I don’t know. The next captain may have different players. But whoever they are, what I hope they have got from me is that messaging is the most important thing.”
The messaging will not change for England’s next Test assignment, a five-match series in India starting in January. “It’s the hardest place to win,” he says. “We won there in 2012, and what, a single Test win since? I’m confident I have the players and will try to make India think differently to how they usually play. But they are a seriously good team.”
This starts a hectic 2024, the Indian Premier League coming straight after followed by the defence of the T20 World Cup in the Caribbean and USA, home Tests against West Indies and Sri Lanka, the Hundred, plus Test tours of Pakistan and New Zealand.
Asked what is the now annual question of whether he will play in the IPL, Stokes replies: “I have to get through the World Cup and India Tests before I can even think about all that.” Beyond prioritising his Test team and addressing that troublesome knee injury in time, he sounds happy to see where the dice land.
