Which means we’re done here. Thanks all for your company and comments – sorry I couldn’t use them all – and enjoy the three more games we’ve got for you over the next eight or so hours. Peace out!
Here’s Andy Hunter’s report on a match of devastating unreality.
“VAR gives penalties and cancels open play goals,” says Robert. Just what everyone was clamouring for before its introduction.” And he then returns with a plan:
“Here is a penalty kick law that enhances the proportionality of the sanction while still providing extra punishment for fouls in the penalty area. One does not wish to encourage defensive fouls near their own goal, and direct free kicks (with walls etc) are generally an underwhelming and timewasting spectacle. Instead we get an interesting contest between kicker and keeper from a variety of places in the penalty area.
have the penalty kick for most offences taken from the place of the offence
however, penalty kicks awarded for DOGSO offences (anywhere on the field), and deliberate offences in the penalty area against an opponent which are not an attempt to play/challenge for the ball, are taken from the penalty mark
attacking team can elect to take an indirect free kick instead of a penalty kick from the place of the offence
offences in the goal area are deemed to occur on the nearest point on the long line of the goal area
the goalkeeper can always elect to defend a penalty kick from the penalty mark
no follow-on play from penalty kicks - the only outcome is a goal or goal kick”
There’s a lot to digest there. One thing I would say is that part of football’s charm is its simplicity, so I’d want any solution to be as clear as possible, not just for elite level but for every level, playground included. But I see a lot of the rationale.
Updated
“In the queue for the Denmark v Tunisia game,”emails Hugh Molloy, “and a massive cheer went up on the final whistle.”
I’ll bet. There’s nothing like the World Cup for simultaneously making the world bigger and smaller. Enjoy!
Updated
And here’s our majestic cartoonist’s take on things…
I mentioned this at the time, but I loved how Roy Keane crystallised things, beautiful even by his standards: “Treat people with decency.”
Hello, Billy Buzzkill back again, but what can we do. Football always wins … which is exactly what the bad people are relying on, so.
Updated
As Jimmy Cricket once said, “And there’s more…”
“Brazil fans are rejoicing at the humiliation of their arch rival Argentina,” emails Tom Phillips, our Latin America correspondent. “As the final whistle went in Qatar on Tuesday, Brazilians shared the following tearful version of Argentina’s flag on social media.”
Oh man, this is exactly it: you simply cannot beat football.
Brazil said: pic.twitter.com/w9ojeKmnb2
— Tom Phillips (@tomphillipsin) November 22, 2022
And I guess we also need to remove ourselves from the moment for a second to note that some things are more important than football; to make sure we’re not narcotised by amazing, uplifting, affirming football into forgetting all of what’s going on around it. I’m sorry, I hate to do it, but I’m afraid it’s my job and all of our social, moral responsibility.
I guess we need to remove ourselves from the moment for a second, to note that Argentina still have a decent chance of escaping the group, so still have a chance of winning the thing – in 1990, they lost their first game to Cameroon and still made the final. But they’ll need to play a lot better than today, with more intensity, aggression and intelligence – I’m not surprised they lost from 2-1 down, I am surprised by how little they created following their second concession.
Updated
It’s not even that Saudi won – well it is – but to do some from behind is even more astoundingly astonishing. And in a sense they beat Argentina at their own game, two brilliant goals backed up with every possible kind of physical intervention, every possible kind of law-manipulation, and the mental fortitude of the Gods.
Updated
The Saudi players run to their end in the most ecstatic glee anyone in the world has ever experienced, while on Argentinian faces we see a mixture of confusion, dismay and humiliation. Saudi were tremendous in every aspect; Argentina were wan, and when they needed to step it up, they looked in the larder and found nothing.
Updated
USA 1950, North Korea 1966, Cameroon 1990, Senegal 2002 … AND SAUDI ARABIA 2022! Football is unmatched, unrivalled, undefeated, and the greatest thing on the face of the earth!
Updated
FULL-TIME: Argentina 1-2 Saudi Arabia
OH MY ABSOLUTE COMPLETE AND UTTER EVERLASTING DAYS!
Updated
90+13 min Lisandro puts a ball into the box but it’s scuffed and Saudi clear yet again! This is desperate, unreal, exhausting, mystifying stuff! This is World Cup football!
90+13 min There can’t be long left now. Hang onto your souls, people!
90+11 min Messi to D Maria … whose cross is useless, scuttling behind. Argentina’s first loss in 36 games is imminent, and Saudi have earned the absolute arse out of this. They’ve been brave, tenacious, wild and composed – it’s been a brilliant effort, and they’re on the verge of one of the great World Cup moments, results and feelings!
90+10 min Argentina win successive corners, both cleared, but the second allows a ball back in and it pick out Alvarez! But he can’t impart requisite power, and Alowais flies across his goal to save comfortably.
90+9 min We go again, Alsharani giving thumbs-up from his stretcher.
Updated
90+8 min Alsharani still receives treatment and is now on a stretcher being carried off. on the touchline, Alburayk prepares to replace him for what I guess will be enough four or five minutes.
Updated
90+6 min Alsharani is conscious, I think, while, sat in his six-yard box, Alowais decompresses. He looked upset by what happened but is composed now, complaining of knee-knack.
Updated
90+5 min Alowais charges way out of his goal to punch clear and oh my days, he absolutely annihilates Alsharani, kneeing him full in the phizog with the full force of the moment. The ref, though allows play to proceed before the ball goes dead; godspeed, old mate.
Updated
90+4 min Saudi win a corner down the right and try to keep the ball down there, but soon give away a free-kick. Argentina haven’t looked like scoring really, and that’s testament to how well Saudi have defended and also disappeared time. They’ve made these last 20 a real mess.
90+2 min When the ball’s cleared, Di Maria curls back in, Otamendi goes up with the keeper and does enough to disturb him, enabling Alvarez to thrash goalwards … but on the line, Al-Amri heads clear brilliantly, Alowais is booked for protesting Otamendi’s challenge, and Saudi still have their lead! My word!
90+1 min There’ll be eight added minutes and Messi’s poor free-kick achieves nothing, then another monstrous challenge from Altambakti robs Alvarez and hands Argentina another corner. He celebrates like he’s scored again, and what a match he’s had!
Updated
90 min Di Maria weaves at the Ssaudi defence and Asiri welcomes himself to the game by administering the trip. Free-kick Argentina, 25 yards out, level with the left edge of the box…
88 min Alabid, the first-half sub, is subbed, with the ref chasing him to the touchline to award a yellow card; Asiri replaces him, while Haitham is on for Albrikan.
Updated
87 min Di Maria again goes down the right, picks out Lautaro, and again, Altambakti, my man of the match, makes a fine challenge.
87 min Er, there’s another game kicking off in 70 minutes’ time.
86 min I can’t help but think the removal of Paredes harmed Argentina. He was helping them set their tempo, and the game’s got a bit messier since he departed; weight of numbers should override structure only at the very end.
84 min Argentina haven’t lost a World cup game in which they’ve scored first since West Germany beat them 3-1 in 1958, but excuse me while I interrupt myself! Di Maria picks out Big Leo Messi at the back stick, he’s up early … too early, I think, and can’t impart any power on his header aimed for the far corner, so again, Alowais collects. Since going behind, Argentina have created almost nothing.
Updated
83 min Acuna bursts down the left and crosses, but no one hits the near post so Alowais collects under nae pressure.
82 min Argentina are being Argentinad now, Abdulhamid clattering someone – Fernandez I think – and taking a card while stopping momentum.
Updated
81 min And Messi lofts high over the bar!
Updated
80 min The Saudi wall isn’t keen to retreat, the tension ratcheting up a few more levels above stratospheric.
Updated
79 min Argentina win a free-kick in Messi Territory after a foul on De Paul and Aldawsari is booked for appealing it’s award. Here he comes, 25 yards out, just left of centre…
Updated
78 min Change for Saudi, Alghannam for Alshehri, scorer of their first goal.
77 min The ground is bouncing, jumping, and every other cliche we use to describe the greatest communal experience that exists in the world. Argentina have roughly 20minutes to save themselves – though in a sense, this result would be as bad for Poland and Mexico, both of whom will fancy making the knockouts.
Updated
75 min Albulaihi is booked for timewasting. I daresay his won’t be the last, and it’s interesting that this is a risk he was prepared to take, England, Wales and the rest.
74 min Tremendous keeping from Alowais, who’s been great so far. A ball in behind and for a second it looks like Lautaro is in, but the keeper slides out and makes a brilliant, goal-saving challenge. I’ve smoke coming off my fingers, this is wondrous, wonderful stuff.
Updated
74 min “Not just third-choice keeper,” says Jerry Spring. “How about from the kick-off the captain wear the armband, gets booked, passes to another player, gets booked, passes on...back to the captain, gets second yellow and off, onto the next player, etc. No players left on the pitch and it hasn’t even kicked off ... and if all the main teams do that in consecutive games then Fifa won’t have a competition to sell ... let’s see who backs down first.”
73 min Fernandez slams a low cross that Alvarez might’ve got had he not been on his heels, then Messi used the outside of his left boot to curve a ball into Di Maria, down the right of the box, but a poor low shot was easily gobbled by Alowais.
72 min I wonder, by he way, if Scaloni will get grief for picking Romero, who’d not played for a bit, when he had Lisandro, in great form. He likes the former and with good reason, but he had an alernative.
71 min Another change for Argentina, Tagliafico departing and Acuna arriving.
70 min “How about a second penalty spot on the 18-yard line for fouls in the box not deemed a goal scoring opportunity?” asks Charles Howgego.
I’d be fine with that; I’m sure there are a few solutions that are better than the status qo.
69 min Saudi are sitting deeper now, Messi sliding a ball inside Albrikan for Fernandez … and the defender does really well to get it behind.
67 min Almaki slides into a fifty-fifty with Otamendi, there’s a mincing of limbs, and the Saudi man is booked.
66 min Argentina have played much better today than they did in losing their first game of Italia 90 to Cameroon. But they’re paying the price for eagerness – on reflection, those times they were caught offside in the first half, they had no business being caught offside because the passes were good and there was so much space into which they could run.
Updated
65 min Another ball over the top finds Messi, but Altambakti does really well to intercede – again – as he looks for Lautaro.
64 min Argentina win a corner, someone – I’m not certain who – swipes it across the face, and Lisandro knees goalwards form a few yards … but Alowais does brilliantly to scramble across his line and shovel around the post for a further corner that comes to nowt.
62 min Herve Renard is living this match now, right up on the touchline. I wonder, though, about Scaloni’s changes – I’m not yet sure on Argentina’s shape, but generally I’d say it’s too early to sacrifice that for eight of attacking numbers. Anyhow, Di Maria swerves over a fine cross that Lautaro is slightly longer spikes away from glancing home.
Updated
61 min Saudi are still persevering with that high line and amazingly, in co-comms, Lee Dixon is dubious rather than envious. “Lino!”
61 min Back to the armband thing for a second, a bit of creativity and the problem is easily solved. Bring on your third keeper at the end, make him captain, he gets booked, whatevz.
60 min It’s a long time since I’ve experienced as wild a 10 minutes as that. Football!
59 min Ch ch ch changes, Lisandro Martinez, Alvarez and Fernandez replacing Romero, Gomez and Paredes. Argentina are going for it.
Updated
56 min Immediately, Messi skates forward, but have a look! Altambakti slides in and executes a sensational sliding challenge inside the box, celebrating like he’s just scored. We could be witnessing something historic here – dig in mates, this is real, the intensity and extremes that real life can’t give us right here in our faces.
54 min Phew! This is why the worst people around want a piece of football. There is nothing, nothing like it.
Updated
GOAL! Argentina 1-2 Saudi Arabia (Aldawsari 53)
GOAL GOAL GOAL GOAL! Aldawsari pinches a yard, dipping infield off the left, and unfurls a gloooooorious curler that Martinez can only palm into the top corner. THAT IS ONE OF THE GREAT WOLRD CUP MOMENTS! THE GROUND IS IN DISBELIEF, A NATION GOES WILD! CAN SAUDI HANG ON?
Updated
53 min Saudi are on it! Abdulhamid finds Alabid down the right, who tries a curler from the right – it looks goalbound but it’s heading clear. Saudi, though, maintain the pressure….
51 min This is now also a good test for Argentina, who have to regain composure and try and prise apart a well-drilled side on a buzz.
49 min There is a row in the ground! These next 41+543 minutes are going to be intense!
GOAL! Argentina 1-1 Saudi Arabia (Alshehri 48)
GOODNESS ME! Saudi win it in midfield, a long ball sends Alshehri in, his first touch is excellent and he’s got the legs to escape Romero, who’s not played in a minute. At speed, he deftly guides a finish into the ground, through the defender’s legs, and past Martinez right into the corner, racing over to the Saudi fans and getting to his knees in prayer! What a moment!
Updated
46 min “I think this short video of Nicky Bandini commenting on how the teams who were going to wear One Love armbands backed down is worth putting on the liveblog,” returns Kári Tulinius. “I honestly thought that I had become too jaded to be surprised by the cravenness of footballers and football authorities towards authoritarians, but even I’ve been shocked how little it took, a yellow card.”
"Someone, somewhere, grow a backbone and actually stick up for something because this is ridiculous".@NickyBandini Does. Not. Miss! Expressing her thoughts to @MinaRzouki on #FIFA, #Infantino, England & Wales FAs, and authoritarian #Qatar.
— Serie A Chronicles (@serieAchronpod) November 22, 2022
🔊Get it! ➡️ https://t.co/mQ3HuO8zog pic.twitter.com/PggM0F1xv1
Yes, I agree.
“It’s important to stand up for injustice.”
“How important?”
“A bit less important than getting a yellow card.”
46 min We go again.
Bubbling testosterone in the studio: Roy Keane doesn’t think it was penalty and Graeme Souness thinks it doesn’t matter what Roy Keane thinks because the refs have been told to give them for those kinds of things. “I’m here to give my opinion,” says Roy, many times; “Give someone else a chance to speak, you might learn something,” says Graeme; “Snigger,”says Joe Cole.
Updated
Eyeball:sweat interface.
DO IT, DO IT, DO IT!
Half-time emails: “The first thought when a corner is given is now ‘ooh, might get a cheap penalty here’ rather than ‘might score an actual goal here’,” says Tom Hopkins. “I’m not sure how to change that without putting the VAR genie back in its box, but it doesn’t seem like an ideal state of affairs?”
On the other hand, David Sweet disagrees with me saying “I think I preferred it when refs could turn a blind eye because I don’t think that kind of thing should result in an almost definite goal,” replaying as follows: “But a foul is a foul and I think 99 fans out of 100 would prefer that ‘tussles’ did not happen - NO use of hands/arms on an opponent: ever. That would be in the spirit and laws of the game from the start.”
I’m not sure. David, I like the physical aspect of the game, so would always err on the side of preservation; Tom, I’d have binned VAR before it came in because of how it compromises goal celebrations, the greatest feeling known to mankind, but I’d always thought that penalties are too harsh a punishment for many of the offences for which they’re given and this has intensified that.
HALF-TIME: Argentina 1-0 Saudi Arabia
That was a pretty enjoyable half of football, and not just because it’s 10.52am UK time nor because we’re all hopeless marks totally narcotised by the majesty of football. Argentina played some nice stuff, Saudi were enterprising too, and we’ve still got 315 minutes, (plus 692 of added time) awaiting us today.
45+3 min Ach, I was wrong about Alfaraj. The Saudi captain departs grimacing and on the verge of tears, poor bloke – he must be hurt if he can’t last until the break – and Alabid replaces him.
Updated
45+1 min We’ll have five added minutes, and I’m going to sound like a total clown saying this, but the timekeeping is probably my favourite aspect of this competition so far – though I yesterday also enjoyed Christian Pulisic telling the ref to “relax” and Jude Bellingham calling Luke Shaw “Shawy”, in flagrant abuse of football’s nickname rules.
Updated
45 min Paredes snaps a lovely ball out to Molina, disguising his intention to find his mate in space. But with men in the box at which to aim, instead he clips backwards and Saudi counter before running into traffic.
44 min Aldawasari skips between two challenges like someone nipping onto the Tube as the doors close, then falls as Molina closes in to challenge; there’s a minor call for a penalty, but it’s not actually close.
42 min Messi swings out towards Paredes and the ball’s cleared towards De Paul, advancing to the edge. He’s got time and space – lots of both – so back goes the head and up goes the shot, sailing way over the bar.
40 min But as I type that, a ball over the top finds him down the side of the box, only for a poor touch to allow the defender in. Corner to Argentina, which yields a free-kick in a better position when Almaki clatters Gomez for no benefit other than the sheer pleasure of inflicting pain
39 min “When I sat down to watch this match,” emails Kári Tulinius, “I was suddenly struck by the melancholy thought that I’ll probably only see Messi play two or three dozen times again before he retires. I can remember him as a long-haired scamp tearing through defenses in dour era of football, like a Prometheus stealing joy from the football gods and bringing it to humanity. How lucky to have witnessed it.”
Yes, his and Ronaldo’s consistency is unlike anything we’ve ever seen before. For years, I wasn’t sure of who he reminded me, but I got there in the end.
38 min Alfaraj, the Saudi captain, is down with some kind of shin situation. He’s being sprayed, which suggests it’s impact rather than muscular and that he’s going to be fine.
37 min Have Saudi got George Graham in as defensive coach? Their offside trap has been superb so far.
36 min I cringe when I write this, but when I was at university, Nicolas Anelka scored a goal like that for Madrid, so I tried it in a game and scored … but twisted my ankle.
35 min Oh man, again Lautaro gets in one-on-one, this time he steps over to commit the keeper before rolling in, and again the flag goes up.
Updated
33 min “Dearest Daniel,” begins my latest email – which long-time readers will know means MBM and OBO legend, Mac Millings. “The idea that the refs got told to give those kinds of penalties after the Maguire incident makes sense, but only in a world where we trust Fifa to learn from their mistakes.”
I’m trying to work out which tune to sing this to, or which rhyme-scheme I’m missing, but one thing on that: it seems like, despite the ludicrousness of this competition, that during it, football has finally decided to take timekeeping seriously. I’d still love to see the working for the added time we’ve been getting, and the clock displayed for all to see, but being dreadful at important tuff doesn’t necessarily preclude competence at the peripheral stuff. Maybe.
32 min The ball comes in, and Martinez collects.
30 min …they send men up; watch for the counter if this goes wrong, but Argentina clear at the near post, then Saudi, who sustain the attack, find Kanno down the left, so De Paul crunches him. Another chance to put a ball into the box, prior to which Otamendi and Albulaihi shove each other.
30 min Saudi win a corner down the right…
GOAL DISALLOWED FOR OFFSIDE!
We’ve not seen the replay, but a fair while after Martinez celebrated inking his name into the annals of humanity, his goal was confiscated.
Updated
GOAL! Argentina 2-0 Saudi Arabia (Martinez 28)
And there it is. That high line is punished again, a straight pass from De Paul into the chasm behind the Saudi defence, Alowais comes out, and Martinez has a cup of maté then lifts over his dive. Lovely finish.
Updated
26 min “A question regarding your proposed rule changes for penalties,” emails Ben Roylance. “Would you have awarded a penalty to Wales yesterday when Bale was fouled near the halfway line?”
I’d need another look, but I don’t think so, because the chances of him hitting a lob from there that went in were less likely than him not doing so. But I’d prefer to see one given for that than for the foul on Paredes.
24 min “Who’s to say that the ball being played into the box, from a free kick or corner, wasn’t aimed for the man being fouled?” asks Sam Naden. “As such, I think a penalty should be given rather than a direct free kick.”
I’m happy for the ref to decide based on the flight of the ball and position of the player fouled.
22 min Eeesh, there’s that space in behind again, a ball over the top – from Gomez I think – puts Messi in! This time, he doesn’t bottle it –(that’s a joke, @MessiSZN) – opening body to roll home. But the flag goes up and he was indeed offside, though not by much. I daresay he’ll score from a situation such as this before the morning/afternoon/evening/night is out.
Updated
21 min Argentina get it wide to Gomez, who has a look then thrashes a shot miles over and somewhere towards Selhurst Park.
20 min “Sure, money is the blocker now,” returns Dom Jones on the topic of an equatorial African World Cup. “One hopes that won’t always be the case. I assume a competition in that part of the world would be played in winter, same as Afcon. I guess it’s less about temperature and more about rain.”
Yes, which I think depends – not everywhere round that way is hit too hard by the wt stuff such that a June/July edition would be impossible, I don’t think.
18 min Now Argentina counter and Messi turns a lovely ball over the top for Martinez … who’s gone way too early. Still, the space in behind will have been lost on neither of them.
18 min Argentina give it away in midfield and Aldawsari collects. He can’t pick a pass, but Saudi are also committing men forward, and this is brewing into a really enjoyable game.
16 min Alshehri clatters into Tagliafico, who doesn’t like it, but it fine. Saudi, by the way, have been better these last few minutes, a nice interchange down the right allowing Abdulhamid to cross from the right; Martinez dives to collect.
15 min Whatever one’s thoughts about the penalty, though, credit to Argentina for not mucking about. Men forward, well-spaced – and a big chance followed by a goal inside 10 minutes.
13 min “The quote from Paredes on Messi,” tweets Avik, “reminded me of this from Yuvraj: ‘The whole team wanted to win the World Cup so badly, especially for Sachin because we knew it was his last World Cup.’”
The reverence of brilliant for genius is a beautiful thing.
Updated
11 min I wonder if that goal came about because the refs were told about not letting fouls of that ilk go, following the yank on Harrance Maguire yesterday. It’s a real problem, I think, with the game, because of how hard it is to defend corners without getting physical. I think I preferred it when refs could turn a blind eye because I don’t think that kind of thing should result in an almost definite goal, which brings me back to the point I always make: any denial of a goalscoring opportunity, anywhere on the pitch, should be a penalty; any foul in the box that does not deny a goalscoring opportunity should be a direct free-kick.
GOAL! Argentina 1-0 Saudi Arabia (Messi pen 10)
Messi pigeon steps then hops, the keeper commits early and goes down right, so Messi rolls left and that’s the start Argentina wanted!
Updated
PENALTY TO ARGENTINA!
9 min Yes, that’s a penalty; I wonder who’ll take it?!
Updated
8 min Messi looks for De Paul on the edge, he shoots into a defender, and then the ref goes to consult VAR because Abdulhamid might’ve hauled down Paredes!
Updated
7 min There’s shoving inside the box before the ball is headed a decent distance away … though it comes straight back, and a foul on De Paul means Messi will now swerve in a cross with a better angle so to do.
6 min Argentina win a corner down the left; Messi will take…
5 min “To those objecting to the schedule,” says Dom Jones, “are you ruling out the possibility of the World Cup ever being held in equatorial Africa? Seems a shame.”
The difficulty of those countries hosting sadly begins with money – though would it not be hotter there this time of year than in June and July? That’s certainly the case in Ghana, which is my experience of that part of the world.
3 min That move did, though, give us a decent insight into how Argentina are going to play: loads of men up, with one on each touchline.
2 min And they’ve got six players up front when a big switch finds Di Maria keeping the width down the right. He pokes infield to Martinez, the ball runs loose … and onto the left peg of the onrushing Messi! He should score, the route opening for him to bend inside the far corner, but he shoots too near to Alowais, who dives to shove away! What a start that should’ve been!
1 min Argentina knock it about with all the swagger of a side not beaten in 36 games, with Saudi engaging when they reach the centre-circle.
1 min Away we go! Late, with the countdown missed; I don’t know what to think anymore!
Updated
Saudi have more fans here than anyone else and they give it loads, right as the coverage cuts out. But it returns in time for the ads, after which we’ll have the first of today’s four matches.
By the way, if you didn’t see Wales’ last evening, here it is. If you did see Wales’ last evening, here it is. NSFW warning: your eyeballs may sweat.
Chills... 🥶
— ITV Football (@itvfootball) November 21, 2022
It's been 64 years since @Cymru last qualified for the World Cup!
They look happy to be back... 🙌#ArBenYByd | #FIFAWorldCup pic.twitter.com/8cLQMJNz8W
Anthem time.
The flamethrowers are active and the PA is booming. It can only mean one thing: World Cup football! Here come our teams!
Updated
We just want to play football. I would have loved to play with that band, but not at the expense of a yellow card”.
More important than the football, which of these two has the best scran? Argentina’s asado v Saudi’s kabsa feels like a local derby of food.
And Argentina gen here:
Saudi gen here:
On which point, what’s the optimal World Cup experience for players returning in shape? Presumably those who don’t go or go and don’t play won’t be match-fit; those who go out in the groups and last 16 will also have too much time off; and those who depart the semis and final will have played too many emotionally demanding games. So I’m going for a quarter-final exit, which would be good news for teams with lots of English players, etc etc.
Keane also said the World Cup has no business being in Qatar, with which it’s hard to argue. Aside from the human rights aspect, I can’t get my head around the footballing aspects: players who’ve slogged their entire lives to earn the right to play, but can’t because they’ve had no time to recover from injuries, and then those who reach the final will have no time to assimilate the greatest and worst moment of their lives, but will instead have to hike back to the European winter and Leeds away, or whatever.
Back to the serious stuff, “We’re talking about common decency – how you treat people,” says Roy Keane, absolutely nailing how to respond to anyone who uses “woke” or “political correctness” as an insult. Things can be difficult, different and complex, but compassion, especially for the vulnerable, should be at the centre of everything.
Decent player imo.
@DanielHarris https://t.co/P81r8imAMX
— Messistats 🐐 (@MessiStats_) November 22, 2022
Email! “Irish Saudi fan here in Jeddah,” says Ger Clancy. “The whole country has just been given a half-day to watch the game and there’s an epic stampede to get home. Thankfully I left even earlier and am eating some dates on my couch watching the build up on ITV bootleg. Watch out for Kanno, Al Shehri and Al Dawsari. Dont know much about the other crowd....!”
ITV are running a piece on sportswashing and Saudi, which is harrowing to say the least. I actually wonder if that’s what we’re really seeing, or if their involvement in football is more about ego, money and power. I’d also not seen the clip of Eddie Howe being asked about human rights abuses and responding that he was “bitterly disappointed” about that day’s defeat. It really puts football out of perspective.
Something to read while I scrawl the teams onto some paper: what makes the perfect World Cup, and what’s our responsibility when enjoying this one?
Wondering about Argentina as potential winners, I wonder if they’ll have the midfield control in the biggest games, and if the better sides might exploit the space behind their full-backs. But here’s one reason to hope they make it, from RDP on his tatts:
A lot of them have a specific meaning: the names of my daughter, wife and mother … I think I’m going to stop. Unless I become world champion, in which case I’ll get a tattoo of the World Cup on my chest.”
This, from Paredes on Messi, was also good:
If we win the World Cup, I’d be happier for him than I would be for myself.”
I love the reverence players have for the best of them – listening to Stephen Hendry commentate on Ronnie O’Sullivan is one of my favourite joys – and am reminded that there used to be a tradition in Argentina that you sent your top from your debut to Maradona where it was stored in what was known as “the room”, containing all his memorabilia. I know this because my best mate has been in it. I am sat in a box room in north London.
Talking of Fernandez, I loved this from his Guardian profile:
Former Primeira Liga coach Jose Peseiro told A Bola: “With his passing and vision he’s a bit like Zidane. Enzo is only 21 years old? Either that’s a lie, or he’s a genius.”
Updated
So Lionel Scaloni goes for Otamendi and Romero at centre-back, which tells us how highly he rates them given Martinez is also available. In midfield, he’s got a really interested mix of solidity, with Paredes, general purpose activity in De Paul, and unpredictability in Gomez – though I wonder if Fernandez might force his way into the reckoning at some point. I hope so, because he is very special. Meanwhile it’s as expected in attack – though I’d not be surprised to see Julian Alvarez affect this tournament from the bench.
I make it six minutes of coverage before ITV started banging on about England.
Updated
Our teams!
Argentina (4-3-3): Martinez; Molina, Romero, Otamendi, Tagliafico; De Paul, Paredes, Gomez; Messi, Martinez, Di Maria. Subs: Armani, Rulli, Foyth, Montiel, Pezzella, Acuna, Palacios, Rodriguez, Mac Allister, Fernandez, Alvarez, Correa, Almada, Dybala.
Saudi Arabia (4-3-3): Alowais; Abdulhamid, Altambakti, Albulaihi, Alshahrani; Kanno, Almalki, Alfaraj; Albrikan, Alshehri, Aldawsari. Subs: Alyami, Alaqidi, Madu, Alamri, Alburayk, Alghannam, Aldawsari, Alnajei, Alhassan, Otayf, Alabed, Alobud Bahbri, Asiri.
Referee: Slavko Vincic (Slovenia)
Updated
Good news for all the preamble writers out there: Lionel Messi starts for Argentina.
Preamble
It was once put to Juca Kfouri, the Brazilian football writer, that Zico never won the World Cup. “Well,” he retorted, “that’s the World Cup’s bad luck”.
And in a way, Brazil’s failure to lift the trophy in 1982 – and 1986 – actually elevates their standing, cementing them in our hearts because it’s easier to identify with tragic heroes than heroic heroes. Or, put another way, because – as we always are when we think we’re thinking about someone or something else – we’re really thinking about ourselves. But it’s also easier to identify with them because they stood for something important: “Beauty comes first, victory is secondary – what matters is joy,” was how Socrates put it.
Which brings us onto Lionel Messi. Our relationship to him is different partly because Argentinian football culture is different to Brazilian football culture, its focus on winning by whatever means necessary. But it’s a personal thing, too – though Messi is perhaps the greatest player there’s ever been, he’s been so adept at concealing his essence that all we know of him is the genius we see on the pitch, meaning there’s no personal connection. So from our perspective – there we are again, punkt in the centre of things – he could do with inspiring a famous win here, so that people he neither knows nor cares for don’t think less of a bloke who’s 487 goals in 559 club games and 91 in 165 at international level; been awarded seven Ballon d’Ors; and won 10 La Liga titles, plus four Champions Leagues.
Really, though, it’s nothing to do with us whatsoever: Messi needs to win this for himself, so he ends his career with no regrets. And the good news for him is that he’s got a decent chance: Argentina have a strong defence, solidity and creativity in midfield, and serious firepower up front. The bad news for him is that he might be carrying a knock, but reports suggest he’ll be fine.
Saudi Arabia, meanwhile, were good in qualifying but have been less so since. They are, though solid at the back: in 12 games this calendar year they’ve conceded just six times, keeping clean sheets against Australia, USA and Ecuador, limiting Colombia and Croatia to just a single goal, and only letting in more than that once. Here we go!
Kick-off: 1pm local, 10am GMT
