Allen Weisselberg, the former chief financial officer of the Trump Organization, repeatedly responded with variations of "I can't recall" in response to dozens of questions during his testimony at the New York fraud trial where he, former President Donald Trump, Trump's two eldest sons, the Trump organization and others of a decade-long fraud scheme.
Weisselberg, who testified as a prosecution witness in addition to being a defendant in the suit, didn't recall speaking with Trump, Don Jr., Eric or a former Trump attorney about the documents, which were instrumental to the company's deal-making with banks and insurers, according to CBS News. He didn't recall the phrase "estimated current value," which both parties in the trial agree is fundamental to their arguments, nor did he remember the details of "generally accepted accounting principles," instead noting that he's not a certified public accountant.
Weisselberg admitted to learning at some time over the years that Trump's approximately 11,000-square-foot New York City apartment was being valued as though it was 30,000 square feet but couldn't recount when or with whom he spoke about it. He also recognized that he "periodically" received comments from the former president about the statements of financial condition before they were finalized but could remember details about any changes to them Trump may have requested.
An email attachment displayed while Weisselberg testified Tuesday showed that Trump had signed a 1994 document 30 years ago listing the true size of his New York penthouse at 10,996 square feet — a figure almost three times less than the square footage he later claimed for years on financial statements, The Associated Press reports.
Weisselberg said he recalled seeing the email but not the attachment, noting that the attachments were documents he already had on file in the company's offices, and that he didn't think much of the apartment's size because its value was only a small part of Trump's overall wealth.
“I never even thought about the apartment. It was de minimis, in my mind,” Weisselberg said, using a Latin term that means too minor to warrant consideration.
“It was not something that was that important to me when looking at a $6 billion, $5 billion net worth,” he added.
Later Weisselberg was asked about an appraisal of Trump's Seven Springs estate north of New York City that valued the property $230 million less than what the former president's financial statements indicated. The former CFO said he was aware of the appraisal but didn't consider the difference to be worth flagging to the external accountants who made the statements.
He did, however, acknowledge that he authorized documents certifying that financial summaries given to banks to meet loan requirements were “true, correct, and completely and fairly” presented Trump's financial status.
Though he reiterated that he couldn't remember whether he discussed the statements with Trump in the finalization process, Weisselberg said he reviewed drafts “from a 30,000-foot level” but took special notice of the descriptions of properties, something he described as "very important" to Trump.
“It was a little bit of a marketing piece for banks to read about our properties, how well they’re taken care of, that they’re first-class properties,” Weisselberg, noting that Trump was very particular about the language used in the descriptions.
“He might say, ‘Don’t use the word “beautiful” — use the word “magnificent,”’ or something like that,” Weisselberg added.
He testified that he only learned of the Trump Tower penthouse's size discrepancy when a Forbes magazine reporter flagged it in 2016, explaining that he initially disputed the findings but couldn't remember whether he directed anyone to look into it.
As Forbes homed in on the apartment size concern in 2017, emails show a company spokesperson told another Trump executive that Weisselberg said they were not to engage in the matter. A week later, the former president's 2016 financial statement was released with the incorrect size.
Trump Organization executives greatly inflated the estimate of the apartment's value over the years for various reasons, including Trump's fame and a comparison to an asking price on another triplex that another former exec testified ultimately sold for 60% less.
The former CFO last took to the witness stand when the Trump Organization was on trial last year in Manhattan, which culminated in a jury finding two of its companies guilty of 17 criminal counts related to tax fraud, and the entity being ordered to fork over $1.6 million in fines.
On Tuesday, Weisselberg's appearance was for Trump's civil bank fraud trial in which New York Attorney General Letitia James is seeking $250 million in penalties and a range of sanctions on the company, alleging that it, Trump and its executives engaged in fraud for years by exaggerating the value of its assets on the statements of financial condition. James' lawsuit accuses Weisselberg — who left a New York City jail six months ago following a 100-day stint after he pleaded guilty to fraud and tax evasion in 2022 — of engineering the financial statements to meet Trump's demands that they reflect steep increases in his net worth while signing off on exaggerated valuations for assets despite appraisals indicating the contrary.
During a May deposition that's now an exhibit in the case, Weisselberg indicated that his conversations with the former president about the statements were limited.
"It was more of just handing it to him and him taking it up to his apartment, maybe reading it in the evening, and making some notations giving it back to me," Weisselberg said, according to a transcript of the deposition.
The defendants' alleged decade-long scheme of falsely inflating and deflating the value of Trump's wealth and some of his properties, James alleges, was to receive more favorable loan terms than they deserved and, thus, rake in hundreds of millions of dollars.
Weisselberg had worked for the Trump Organization for nearly 50 years but in January signed a severance agreement with the company, authorizing his receipt of $2 million paid in installments over two years, the May deposition shows.
Trump described his decades-long relationship with Weisselberg in his April deposition.
"He was with me for a long time. He was liked. He was respected. Now, he's gone through hell and back. What's happened to him is very sad," Trump said.
Trump appeared in court for the first two and a half days of trial last week, sitting for his former accountant Donald Bender's testimony. The former president has denied any wrongdoing in the case and has repeatedly derided it as politically motivated.
