First, how do you reflect on the past eight and a half years? It is so rare in this industry that you can create this kind of relationship to a club and to a city because, in the beginning, what did we know? It is not that we can lie. In the 15 years before I arrived I watched loads of football, but did I watch a lot of Liverpool? No. So coming here and living the life I did, dedicating everything to it, which is what I had to do for the people, is really special. The way people in England see it, you either love Liverpool or hate Liverpool. Obviously it was very easy for me to fall in love with the club and the people. It is a super-special story. Could it have been more successful? Yes. With me? I don’t know. We did absolutely everything. I am very self-critical but I do not reflect on this in a critical way. We had really good times with super football moments, real development, tough moments, overcoming all of them. OK, maybe not always in time, but I look back with a smile.
You made several predictions at your first press conference – telling fans to turn from doubters to believers and saying you’d have to work in Switzerland if you didn’t win a trophy in four years … That went down well in Switzerland! My skiing holiday will not be there. I’m sure people think I planned to say those things. I just wanted to survive the press conference. My English was not that great.
I’d been talking to people about why they changed from Brendan [Rodgers] to me, what happened in not becoming champions in 2014 and what it meant being so close. I realised everyone was doubting what Liverpool does and no one liked the team. Not even the team liked the team. The players were not comfortable in their skin. The four years comment was, not to buy time, but I know how football works. If you do not arrive early enough where people want to go then it will not happen.
What I actually meant was not that I would have to coach in Switzerland but you would need a coach from Switzerland, you would have to try with somebody else. Anyway, it was bullshit! The people had lost patience long enough and wanted to see something they could believe in again. It was a good team but not for the big prizes and we had to change it step by step. I could say now [to the owner, Fenway Sports Group]: “You didn’t back me enough and I could have been more successful,” but I never saw it that way. We had discussions about it, but I would have never made them public. I didn’t want to bring any feelings to the outside world that we were not united. If we had an argument then we had it internally but outside we say: “That’s our way, that’s how we do it.” If it would help to invite the public into discussions I am the first to do so, but it doesn’t help.
I really understood how we do it and for us it is the Liverpool way. We do it the right way. We don’t overspend, we always spent what we earned on the team or a stand or a training ground. This is a healthy club. To be a healthy club at this time and be on our level … you can say Barcelona is not a healthy club but still up there but I don’t think that would be the Liverpool thing.
Other clubs have massive money and try really hard. We need to do it this way because that is what the people really believe. That is proven historically. Lefties, educated by Bill [Shankly]. Most of us don’t know him. We didn’t even live in that era but it is always around. You cannot just change now to the other side. The younger faction might be like that but who cares? For us older people and probably from around 30-something, they want to have it the proper way and I thought we always did that. We were unlucky or maybe in moments not good enough to win three Premier Leagues and three Champions Leagues. We all know with a bit more luck or a better decision it could have been different. We were so close that minutes and millimetres decided things for us.
I know for the people it makes a massive difference if I won more. If I win three [Premier League titles] I am definitely a successful manager. If I win one in nine years people can argue about it. But I couldn’t care less. In these seasons when we had 90-odd points we had 364 really enjoyable days and were nearly there, and then one moment is awful, horrible. The block at City, the handball of Rodri, post against Real Madrid, [Sergio] Ramos – was it a red card? I’m not sure but it was harsh. From time to time, I see Vinny’s [Vincent Kompany’s] screamer and think: “Are you kidding me?” Seconds before that goal I was thinking: “Come on Brendan, take [James] Maddison off, he’s tired.” He was five yards away and just had to move to block the shot. I was lying on my sofa with my hands in my pockets and a second later I felt like I’d had a stroke. What can you do when that happens?
You can beat Barcelona in the Champions League semi-final the very next night … My favourite. People always want to talk to me about leadership. I never read a book about it so how can I talk about this? But if my career didn’t teach me how to deal with setbacks, then there is no career for that. And it goes for all of us. There are obviously more important things in life than football but where can you really learn in advanced age groups about how to deal with things? Why do people talk – and it is a big story – about us not winning the league in 2019 by a point? Why we didn’t win the Champions League in 2018 and the way we lost that game? Winning it the next year, don’t win the league for a point but win it the year after. This period is a complete comeback. A comeback over 70-something games, which is absolutely insane.
For me it was like not getting promoted with Mainz for a point, not getting promoted for a goal. We could have given up but it is just not in my DNA. I suffer like crazy after these things, just not for long. After the last Champions League final we lost – I decided before that, if it doesn’t happen, I will not waste a lifetime on suffering. We play that game and shoot every three minutes on their goal but their keeper has 12 hands, and then they score and we talk afterwards about the one mistake where we could have defended better. Their guys were in the wrong position 23 times and we didn’t punish it. That has nothing to do with their defending, that was that fucker [Thibaut] Courtois. I couldn’t go down that road again that night and feel like you usually feel after a defeat like that.
We had the Madrid moment, we had other moments, we won the league, we won cups, and I really think the two Chelsea finals in 2022 were two of the best games I ever witnessed. I enjoyed so many moments and it’s how I understand life – I want it but others want it as well, from time to time you get it and from time to time they get it. I’m at peace with it.
You will be spoken about in the same breath as Shankly in the future by Liverpool fans, for how you revitalised the club and the connection you had with them. How does that sit with you? It’s part of folklore. Bill Shankly didn’t do it alone. You couldn’t do what Bill did in each city in the world. You cannot do it in London where there are 25 clubs. You are here and it’s red or blue. This is the place you can do it. The way Bill understood it, and as far as I know it, because of the political way the people are coming from, you need someone that understands it is the power of unity. We give our all, we see what we get for it, we overcome obstacles, and Bill was obviously the right man to do that. When I arrived people would probably describe it as darker times. It was 10 years since they won the Champions League. At other clubs they would still talk about that but here it was too long. I knew the tricky situation of Liverpool.
Three years before Ian Ayre [Liverpool’s then managing director] called me up when I was at Dortmund and asked if I was interested. I thought: “Eh?” Dortmund were flying, maybe champions again. I thought: “No chance,” but I didn’t want to leave at all so I was like: “Why do you call?” Liverpool was not in a great place, not a place you would say: “Yes, Liverpool is calling, come on let’s go.” That changed three years later. For me it was the No 1 choice. I just thought that’s the one I want to do. What we did with the people, we restored the belief and the togetherness. People enjoy winning of course but fighting for it especially. It is part of our history here that we really get punched hard, get up and go again.
It was not a plan but it is how people are here. The general view on life in Liverpool is very similar to mine. I’m ready to fight for the right things. Do I think I deserve everything? No, and it’s fine that other people should have things as well. I’m not a socialist but I do come from there and I understand life like that. I fitted so well. I didn’t have to change a bit – that was the biggest blessing. Just be myself. That’s why it worked out so well in my relationship with the people. I understand from the outside people might see it like that but, as Bill probably did think, alone would have been impossible. From his boot room, the guys who supported him all took over: boom, boom, boom. They were all there before but it was all about Bill – that’s how it is in the city. It’s all about me. Who spoke about Pep Lijnders? They spoke about Pep Lijnders when his book came out and we didn’t play well and they said: “How can you write a book?” Are you all crazy? But now he goes out and will conquer the world and people will realise. For what the outside world needs it is easy for me because we have the same view on life and I don’t have to pretend to be someone else. I can just say what I think. The rest of the world doesn’t like it but Liverpool people rather like it so we agree on most of the things.
You recently said scousers were the most passionate football fans. Why? I’m nine years living here so I’m massively biased. It’s just what it means to the people. It means absolutely everything. I felt really guilty after the Everton game. We lose and the next night City are playing. Definitely not watching that. My son is saying: “Let’s go for a beer.” So we went for a beer and sat outside. I didn’t want to go inside, not because I expected people to push me through the room saying: “You lost!” but because you don’t want people thinking: “Going for a beer? You better prepare the team for the next game!” But people realised I was sitting outside and I said: “I’m sorry; we tried but it didn’t work out.” And they were so nice, so thankful: “Don’t worry about it”, and in that moment it was about what the whole thing besides results means to all of us.
I am so happy that we can leave a club in a position, not where it is in the table, but as a healthy club. You look at the outside world and think, Arsenal, young, they can go again. Pep [Guardiola] will not stay for ever at City. Even [Kevin] De Bruyne gets older, Bernardo Silva gets older, Phil Foden plays another 12 years of course, [Erling] Haaland. There is a good chance to stay in that group. With new influences. They are really important.Our football doesn’t have to change completely but can be modified here and there. It is not an emergency case where youhear beep, beep, beep and then beeeeeeeep. It is a really healthy, vital club with a wonderful training ground, sensational stadium and financially not bad. That is what I am most proud of. With everything that happened over the years, in crazy times, we never overdid it. And then you get punished years later with these points deductions. It’s horrible. I am not sure they cheated on purpose but somehow they knew: “Mmmm, it’s probably not 100% right but maybe we can get through that.” Obviously they couldn’t and I really like the way we did it.
Diego Simeone once said: “The biggest thing is the responsibility. My wife asked me when I am happiest and I was speechless until I answered: ‘When I go to sleep because nobody is talking to me.’” Do you recognise that feeling? I recognise what he is saying, absolutely. Besides Ulla [Klopp’s wife] pretty much, meeting me means talking about football. I am like Google: “Why do you do this? Why do you do that?” Visiting friends come over, watch the game and for me it’s work and for them a holiday. Family come over, and for me it’s work and for them a holiday. You know how many interviews we have after a game. I don’t have a personal problem with you but you deliver the shit message when I’m not in my best moment. It’s just where we clash. But it is very often the moment you go asleep. I listen to a lot of audio books. I love to read but when I read everyone gets to talk to me. When I have the headphones on people realise I’m not listening. It’s probably one of my strongest characteristics: to feel responsible for an incredible amount of things. It was a big thing when I said I would step aside because I know what it means to a lot of other people.
Bad days or good days, there is a really nice vibe in this building [the AXA training centre]. The reason for that is because if I don’t feel great when I enter the building, I don’t let them feel that. We really like working with one another. There’s a lot of uncertainty for people and I didn’t want that for them. I knew if I chose to leave in another year or two it would be exactly the same for these people. That cannot be the reason for not doing it. It was a big part, but I had to overcome that. I had to think of myself first, which doesn’t happen a lot actually as I can deal with pretty much everything.
What will you miss most of all? I don’t know. I didn’t miss anything in the short break I had after Dortmund; sometimes on a Saturday I forgot the Bundesliga was on. It’s my life so I might miss it but I need to have a look on the other side because it makes absolutely no sense not to. I love what I do but it’s super-intense and there is no space for anything else. If you look at my three clubs, we always built a training ground, we always expanded a stadium or built a stadium. I was not a coach in the sense of plan a session, go home and have a shower. Especially not here. I need to find out if I will miss it. I turn 57 next month. I will not stop working but must it be exactly that? I don’t think so but we will see later. I want to have a proper break and figure out what that does for me.
So what is next? I’ve got an invitation for the Champions League final but I need more tickets. It’s the first time in my life I’m asking for tickets – normally it’s me who is always being asked! Now I am asking it really feels strange. We have tickets for a few games at the Euros but besides that we didn’t plan anything. Being in Germany for a long time, meeting friends, nothing spectacular. Just easy- going, not planning a pre- season or being involved in any transfer talks. I’m really looking forward to it. I think I will be at the Paralympics. Everything is usually about the schedule. The family never asked me: “Can you do this?” Being flexible, that’s exactly what I want to do. Be spontaneous. That will be a challenge.
