New audio has been released of Donald Trump saying that the claim from RNC chair Ronna McDaniel that he was set to leave the Republicans and start a party of his own is “bull***”.
Mr Trump made the comments in July 2021 during a phone interview with Jonathan Karl of ABC News, who included the former president’s response in his October 2021 book Betrayal.
The audio of that phone conversation was broadcast on MSNBC on Monday night.
“[On] his last day in office shortly after boarding Air Force One, Donald Trump spoke with Republican Party chair Ronna McDaniel and delivered some pretty uncomfortable news,” former Biden White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki, now a cable news host, said on Monday night on Inside with Jen Psaki on MSNBC.
“He told McDaniel he was leaving the GOP and creating his own political party, threatening to destroy the Republican Party altogether,” Ms Psaki added on Monday night.
In the audio of the July 2021 phone conversation, Mr Karl asked: “Then you got on the plane, you got a call from Ronna McDaniel. Do you recall? Do you recall that phone conversation?”
Mr Trump said he didn’t remember before repeatedly asking what Ms McDaniel had said.
“That you told her you were gonna leave the Republican Party,” Mr Karl said.
“This is the sickest thing I’ve ever heard. I never said any such thing. You mean, I was gonna form another party or something?” the ex-president responded.
“Yes,” the journalist said.
“Oh, that’s bull****, okay? Never happened,” Mr Trump can be heard saying on the newly shared audio.
As Mr Karl launches yet another Trump-centric book, Tired of Winning, the stories from his previous instalment are getting renewed attention, such as Mr Trump disregardeding the death threats and chants of “hang Mike Pence” from the supporters of the then-president on January 6, 2021.
Mr Karl wrote in Betrayal that Mr Trump didn’t condemn the attacks on his vice president, but instead appeared to defend them.
“The people were very angry,” he said. “It’s common sense, Jon.”
Mr Karl wrote that he sent a number of emails trying to get the White House to respond on whether they would condemn the death threats against Mr Pence.
The journalist added that a response from Judd Deere, the White House Deputy Press Secretary at the time, ended up getting caught in the spam filter.
“We strongly condemn all calls to violence, including those against any member of this administration,” the message said.
But when Mr Karl spoke to Mr Trump, the former president didn’t echo that sentiment.
Cassidy Hutchinson, a former aide to ex-Trump Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, previously told the House Select Committee investigating the insurrection that Mr Meadows said of Mr Trump: “You heard him ... He thinks Mike deserves it. He doesn’t think they’re doing anything wrong.”
“Were you worried about him during that siege? Were you worried about his safety?” Mr Karl asked the former president.
“No, I thought he was well-protected, and I had heard that he was in good shape. No. Because I had heard he was in very good shape. But, but, no, I think--” Mr Trump said.
“Because you heard those chants – that was terrible. I mean--” the reporter pressed.
“He could have – well, the people were very angry,” Mr Trump said.
“They were saying ‘hang Mike Pence,’” Mr Karl noted.
“Because it’s common sense, Jon. It’s common sense that you’re supposed to protect. How can you — if you know a vote is fraudulent, right? — how can you pass on a fraudulent vote to Congress? How can you do that?” Mr Trump said. “And I’m telling you: 50/50, it’s right down the middle for the top constitutional scholars when I speak to them.”
“Anybody I spoke to — almost all of them at least pretty much agree, and some very much agree with me — because he’s passing on a vote that he knows is fraudulent,” Mr Trump said of Mr Pence.
Mr Trump had pressed his vice president to refuse to certify the 2020 election results and send it back to the states during the certification process on January 6.
“How can you pass a vote that you know is fraudulent? Now, when I spoke to him, I really talked about all of the fraudulent things that happened during the election,” Mr Trump said at the time. “I didn’t talk about the main point, which is the legislatures did not approve — five states. The legislatures did not approve all of those changes that made the difference between a very easy win for me in the states, or a loss that was very close, because the losses were all very close.”
