Sitaram Yechury interview | ‘Why is ED not using PMLA in open-and-shut electoral bonds cases?’

Sitaram Yechury, the general secretary of the Communist Party of India (Marxist), was in Kannur on April 16, 2024 to campaign for the Left candidate from the constituency, M.V. Jayarajan. The Hindu caught up with him for a quick chat at the district office of the Communist Party of India [CPI(M)] at Parakkandy in the brief recess between campaign meetings in the blistering April sun.

Mr. Yechury said the INDIA bloc offers a strong, viable alternative to the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) as its declared objective of an understanding at the State level has been achieved in most States. However, the BJP and a major section of the media are propagating a narrative that is divorced from the narrative of the people at the grassroots, he said.

Mr. Yechury said the CPI(M) would do rather well in West Bengal and Tripura if free and fair elections are held. Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s recurrent campaign sojourns to the south smack of an act of desperation which would boomerang on his party. In Kerala, Mr. Modi is making reckless allegations and spreading falsehood against the CPI(M) despite the central agencies under him not being able to come up with anything to substantiate his claims, Mr. Yechury said.

Edited excerpts from the interview:

You have said time and again that it’s a critical election for the country as democracy may not be there if the BJP returns to power at the Centre. But is the Indian National Developmental Inclusive Alliance (INDIA) strong enough to offer a proper alternative, because the BJP’s propaganda is around the argument that there’s no alternative?

Arguments like there is no real alternative to Prime Minister Narendra Modi are of very vintage variety which I have been hearing for the last half a century. We had the same argument in 2004 when the question was what is the alternative to Vajpayee? What is this motley crowd that is coming here? Kushti [wrestling] in Kerala and Dosti [friendship] in Delhi. But despite all that, an alternative government came in 2004 and lasted for 10 years.

The point is, there are two narratives that are currently on in India. One is a Modi-sponsored or the BJP-sponsored media narrative that has majorly taken over thanks to corporate media except for very honourable exceptions like you. But overall, they created a media narrative that is completely diverse from the people’s narrative, and which is what is happening.

If you ask if INDIA has that alternative, that alternative has already emerged through the understandings and seat adjustments in most states at the state level, which was always the declared objective. It’s not going to be a great Indian grand narrative, but it’s going to be brass tacks down the line [arrangement] at the state level and that has been worked out in a vast majority of states.

It has not worked out in some states deliberately because that is more advantageous to keeping the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) out. Like in Kerala, for instance, where the contest is between the UDF [United Democratic Front led by the Congress] and the LDF [left Democratic Front led by the CPI(M)]. Forget an MP, the BJP cannot even get an MLA here.

The Congress and the Left are together in West Bengal because the anti-Trinamool Congress anti-incumbency should not favour the BJP. The situation varies in each state. But overall, I would say, the understanding between the partners of the INDIA bloc has been achieved. And it is a very, very viable and a very strong alternative.

But there is also this argument that this tends to weaken the INDIA alliance because you are in competition with the Congress in Kerala and in alliance with it elsewhere, in West Bengal, Rajasthan, etc which gives out a message that you are not together...

Who is perceiving that message? This is about the two narratives I mentioned earlier. The people on the ground perceive a different narrative from what the media is propagating.

The people on the ground say it is only because of the UDF-LDF confrontation that the BJP is marginalised in Kerala. The media narrative says just the opposite. But the people’s narrative stands proven in the last general elections and the last assembly elections. Despite all the sound and fury made by the BJP and the Prime Minister’s regular visits, what was the net result for the BJP in Kerala?

So, this is only a media-generated, BJP-sponsored narrative. The real people’s narrative says there is no such problem there at all.

The CPI(M) was a party which went to court against the electoral bond scheme and the details are now available for the people to see. But why is it that it has not become a poll issue across the country?

Again, the two narratives are at work. It has become a poll issue at the local level. In fact, wherever we have gone for campaigning, the people said they never knew that Modi or this government could loot the country in such a way. And they have used all the tools available in the dictionary – extortion, quid pro quo, sweetheart deals, money laundering, threats of actions, and thereby collecting and amassing thousands of crores of rupees. Do you think people are just not realising all this? They are realising it from their own day-to-day experiences. The people are saying, if they [the BJP] can amass so much money by these methods – and you have the highest unemployment, the highest continuing inflation particularly of food materials, household savings are at their lowest ever in our history, household indebtedness is at the highest ever in our history – what does that all this show?

But are these issues being discussed by the people at the grassroots?

More than discussion, these issues are felt by the people. And that’s what makes a decisive difference. Discussions can be abstract many a time, but it is actually the lived experience of the people.

There was a study done recently which said BJP has been able to create a perception that it is returning to power in Delhi. And so, the people, although they feel all these things, still tend to vote the BJP…

Again, building up the media narrative. That is what it is all about. But there are other types of surveys too. A media outlet which published a survey predicting 200 seats for the INDIA bloc in about 10 states had to retract. Importantly, there are states like Uttar Pradesh, Rajasthan and Bihar where the BJP has already maximised its position in terms of the number of MPs…

Whatever be the perception management or mind control games they play, eventually, people have to survive and see to it that their children survive too.

What the BJP doesn’t want known to the public are things like India today tops the world in terms of the largest net worth individuals and their families leaving the country. Why because they don’t find themselves safe here. That is the most unfortunate part. After 75 years of independence, if you don’t find your motherland safe to live in, what is the message that it gives?

What are your expectations about the CPI(M)’s poll performance in West Bengal, Tripura, Rajasthan and in Kerala? 

In Bengal and Tripura, the CPM’s performance will be much better if the elections are held free and fair. And that is the challenge there. In Bengal particularly, for the last few elections, complete distortions have taken place which could not be controlled.

That apart, the BJP is interested in portraying it as a TMC-BJP binary, which is again the media perception projecting it as the alternative to the TMC. And in that projection, they got roundly defeated in the assembly elections.

In Tripura, too, the elections are a total sham. So, we hope the Election Commission of India rises to the occasion this time.

So, do you think that the move by the Income Tax department to freeze accounts of the CPI(M) district committee in Thrissur was also a part of this electoral game?

These accounts are with the Election Commission of India and up on the Income Tax database website for the last one year. Supposing they are doing their job, why have they woken up now, a year later and that too, in the midst of an election? You read it along with the arrests of the Delhi and Jharkhand chief ministers, the attacks on all opposition leaders, splitting parties, etc and you realise that this was done with a mala fide intention.

Details of every single account across the country with the CPI(M) PAN card are consolidated and submitted annually by us and there were times when the Election Commission of India and other authorities were on record saying that we were the ones that actually fulfilled that obligation in time.

Even the ruling party does not do that. But there are no questions asked.

You have clear cut cases of money laundering in the electoral bonds. There were many firms that bought electoral bonds many times over the profits they made. There were many firms that bought electoral bonds despite making losses. Where did they get this money from? Isn’t this an open and shut case of money laundering? And prevention of money laundering act, PMLA, is all about that. The Enforcement Directorate (ED) is empowered with it. Why is it not using the PMLA in these cases?

But CPI(M) is of the view that PMLA along with UAPA should be struck down because of their draconian nature…

The draconian aspects of it must be struck down. But the point is, you are using the same PMLA on others, saying there’s no need to give any charge sheet. It has just reversed the principle of jurisprudence and assumes someone guilty until the person proves his/her own innocence. It is ridiculous and should be done away with.

But if that is being implemented in other places, why is it not done in the open and shut cases of money laundering in the electoral bonds? That is a straight giveaway.

In Kerala the other day, Mr. Modi levelled several allegations against state government and accused the CPI(M) in the Karuvannur Cooperative Bank scam. He also cited the case against the Chief Minister’s daughter, the IT probe against the party and the like. What’s your defence?

The central agency’s gold smuggling case has been going on for how many years now? Under whose remit is that whole subject in India? The Central government? Why is it not doing anything if that is the case? So, either this Prime Minister is inaccurate, or his agency is incompetent. And here, it is the Prime Minister who is actually inaccurate.

Not only inaccurate, deliberately spreading false information. So, the point is the boot is always on the other foot for Mr. Modi. He makes these reckless allegations while he is singularly responsible as the head of the central government for having conducted these investigations.

But the same allegations are repeated by the Congress, which says the Kerala government is corrupt…

Well, they have to say something. Otherwise, what is their locus standi? I want them to answer one question. Why is it that the largest number of people going and joining BJP are Congress leaders? So, before hurling charges, look into yourself. Why is this happening? People who have worked in Congress for half a century have joined the BJP. Even in Kerala. There have been ministers, their children and the like. If they don’t want to join politics, that’s fine. But if they want to join politics and join the Congress and then leave for the BJP, what is happening? So, stop hurling unnecessary charges and just look inward.

But the allegation is that most of these cases are not pursued because the Chief Minister has some sort of an understanding with the BJP.

Do you think after hearing all that Modi said here yesterday that he’s not pursuing the cases because of some understanding? He is unable to pursue because he is unable to find a substantial basis or material based on which he can act. That is the reality.

What are the major poll issues raised by the CPI(M)? Is it different in each state or there is a national narrative as shown in the manifesto?

There is a national narrative which is there in our manifesto. And of course, in each state there are certain specific variations. And there are some very important issues like the question of law and order in Bengal and Tripura that come to the forefront.

You don’t think there is any anti-incumbency existing in Kerala?

Anti-incumbency, if at all it is there, may reflect in the assembly election. If there is an anti-incumbency in Kerala, then it should favour us, as the UDF got 19 of the 20 Lok Sabha seats last time.

How do you rate your chances of succeeding in places like Rajasthan where you are contesting one seat and in Tamil Nadu where you are in alliance with the Congress and the DMK?

I have just completed my campaign in Tamil Nadu where we are going to do well. I don’t think the BJP, or its allies are going to get even a single seat there.

Therefore, we should be winning both the seats we are contesting. In Rajasthan, historically, the Congress and the CPI(M) has never come together. We were the main contenders in that whole area. But that’s happening now because of the national developments. It should give us positive results. But you must remember that last time, the BJP which won that seat with 58% vote share. So, it is a formidable contest. In Bihar, we have a good chance.

In Assam, there is a lot of ground pressure against the Congress to withdraw their candidate in Barpeta where we are contesting.

So, we will have to see what happens there. Likewise, I think there will be new areas where we will be able to reach, get MPs.

But the staying away of parties like JD(U), RLD, Prakash Ambedkar’s party VBA from the INDIA alliance is not debilitating it?

That has been the historical role Prakash Ambedkar played in the last few elections. It always helped the BJP.

And the split in the NCP…

They have done all this for the BJP to gain. But it is actually boomeranging on them. Splitting NCP and Uddhav Thackeray’s Shiv Sena has given both the NCP leader and Uddhav Thackeray a tremendous groundswell of support base. There is a feeling that they have been wronged. And that’s why, the BJP, with all its splinter alliance could not hold the local body elections. Because they were sure to lose, and they didn’t want that to happen before the Parliament elections.

We are in Kannur where the CPI(M) is being accused of fomenting violence in the wake of the recent blasts in which a party worker was killed…

Is that anything new? Since I entered politics 50 years ago, it is the same charge that the CPI(M) is fomenting violence. If anything happens in Kerala, there will always be an accusation that CPI (M) is involved in it.

The blast is an indication that there are desperate forces who are trying to make inroads. But the people of Kerala are mature enough, they won’t allow it. That’s because of the vast popular mass support we have.

What do you think of Mr. Modi’s frequent campaign trips to Kerala, saying his party will get two digits?

Desperation. On the one hand, you go boasting around the country, we’ll get more than 400. On the other hand, he knows fully well more than anybody else, that he’s already maximised in those areas where the sharpening of communal polarisation works for them. He can’t get more seats than what he got last time from Rajasthan, because there are no more seats. And they also stand to lose their sitting seats. Where does he make up from? Split the parties in Maharashtra, split Nitish Kumar from the INDIA bloc.

You go and align with Deve Gowda in Karnataka. They are trying to cut their losses and them coming here hoping that the more he [Modi] comes the more they gain. He must have visited Tamil Nadu a dozen times. Unfortunately, he doesn’t learn from his own experience. He did the same in Karnataka before the assembly elections. The more he travelled there, the more decisively the Congress won. That is what is likely to happen here also.

What do you think will happen in Kerala?

In Kerala, too, people think it’s a safer bet to have the Left which is unlikely to defect to the BJP. In West Bengal and Tripura, we are getting killed. But our leaders don’t become turncoats.

That sort of a character you require in the party, which the Congress doesn’t have.

Are you happy with the way the INDIA alliance has been doing its work?

It has been fairly satisfactory at the state level, which is what we planned anyway. And there is going to be a meeting in Ranchi on April 21 to release the fundamental points of our agenda.