Scott Baldwin had always loved training.
The banter and camaraderie of sessions were something that appealed to the hooker, as did the chance to better himself as a player. However, as the years rolled on, something changed.
All of a sudden, he wasn't looking at training in the same way. He didn't view it from the eyes of a player, but from those of a coach.
Having taken up some coaching with Bridgend and Tonbridge Juddians during his playing days, he found himself looking at things in a new way. At times, while he was still vying for the Welsh jersey, he found himself "emotionally exhausted" from coaching on a Friday night.
That new perspective for Baldwin the player was, by his own admission, "frustrating", but, for Baldwin the coach, it was just the beginning.
"As much as I loved playing, I didn't enjoy training towards the end," Baldwin, who announced his retirement from playing last week, tells WalesOnline. "I used to love training but I was seeing it more as a coach and picking up on things. When I sat down to put all my pros and cons on a list, the cons were that I'd miss the competitiveness of playing and having my family watch. But that was it."
And so, when the phone call came from Newcastle Falcons' new head coach Alex Coddling about being the Gallagher Premiership club's defence coach, the time was right for Baldwin to hang up the boots and take the next step.
"The desire to do it has got stronger and stronger," he says about the lure of coaching. "I did a couple of interviews with Codders. Then at that point, I hadn't made a decision on whether I wanted to still play or not.
"It was probably only on my first day back of pre-season with the Ospreys that I knew it was time to make that decision. I had a good chat with Boothy [Toby Booth, Ospreys head coach] about it. They were really good about it. He knew I wanted to go into coaching."
Not that there wasn't a little shred of doubt. "I had a little wobble on my first day, thinking what have I done and that I can still play," he admits. "But I got into it on Tuesday and I know I've made the right decision. Everyone's a good boxer until they get punched in the face, I suppose. I'm nervous, but, more than anything, I'm excited."
He leaves behind a career which saw him win 37 caps for his country, as well as enjoy spells at the Ospreys, Harlequins and Worcester Warriors. He leaves the game having recently been fortunate to experience playing for his country one last time, this time more aware of the experience as a whole with his family watching on.
He admits the happiest time of his career was spent with Quins, where he won a Premiership title playing swashbuckling rugby. At a time when everything has to be linked back to England cricket's new-found liberating philosophy, the way Quins went about becoming English champions was ostensibly 'Bazball' before Brendon McCullum and Ben Stokes ever crossed paths. That brand of rugby - fostered in an environment where mistakes weren't chastised but rather accepted as part of the wider process - was part of the reason as to why Baldwin rediscovered his love of the game. His time in London has also clearly informed his coaching ideals.
"It was the way we played, but there was more than that," he explains. "I remember hearing Johnny Sexton say that, at the start of your career, you're a nobody so you have to play really well to be a somebody. Then you become a somebody and you get noticed and you're playing all the time. Then, you get to the stage when you're going out to not play badly.
"I'd fallen out of love with the game at the end of my time at the Ospreys. That's nothing to do with the Ospreys, I was just bored. When I went to Quins, I was pulling my hair out to begin with. The first six months, I was convinced that we couldn't win like this as it was too unstructured and off the cuff.
"Then I saw it work and now I can't see any other way. There's so many ways to skin a cat so don't be so closed off to think the way you've always done it is the only way. The biggest thing I got from my time there was I've never seen anyone who is stressed and unhappy be the best version of themselves.
"That environment allowed me to express myself and enjoy it. It made me the best version of myself and I was able to bring that back. At Quins, I was almost the barometer to bring it back when they weren't worrying about mistakes, I'd be the one saying 'hang on, if we don't fix that, we won't win'.
"When I came back to Wales, I had to almost be the opposite. When boys made mistakes, I'd be telling them not to worry too much. It's understanding where you need to be on the level of coming hard on people.
"Ultimately, it's about parking it and focusing on the next job. It's hard in elite sport to foster that type of environment. When there's pressure on you, can you stick to what you believe in? I'm a big believer in process over outcome, but ultimately that process has to get outcomes eventually. At the professional level, you either upskill yourself for that process or you can't play that game plan.
"You have to hold people to account for errors, but generally I find errors come when people don't have absolute clarity on how they want to play.
"For instance, if you think the offload is on but you haven't been practising that style of play that week, you're probably not going to get the right one away. It all comes down to buying into how you want to play.
"I hope I can take what I learned as a player and keep that as a coach."
Steve Tandy, his former Ospreys boss and the man behind Scotland's impressive defence, has already told him he will still see the game for the next few years from the eyes of a player. It's a trait Baldwin has been encouraged not to run from, and is one of many pearls of wisdom he is looking to absorb from different coaches he has worked with. Over the past week, he has connected with plenty of people he has played with or been coached by over the last 14 years, sharing a valuable phone call with Warren Gatland on how to manage players .
"I said to Gats the other day, I remember when we beat England in the 2015 World Cup and my head was gone as I'd missed a couple of lineouts. He came over to me in the changing room and asked what was wrong," Baldwin recalls. "I told him and he said it's better to have those games when we win rather than lose and 'I know you'll put it right on Wednesday'. So instantly, I knew that I had another chance that week but also that if I didn't get it right, I wouldn't be playing again."
Baldwin is quick to credit the coaches who have influenced him. Shaun Edwards is an obvious example to look up to, while Brad Davis at the Ospreys and Paul Gustard at Harlequins were others.
From Davis, the details stick out. "He was good in terms of folding policies, holding policies, when you go off the line and when you connect again". With Gustard, it was how well he could change system during a game. Edwards, like Baldwin's attack coach at Quins Nick Evans, is someone who sees the game in simple terms, and Baldwin is cut from a similar cloth.
"Everyone refers to rugby as a game of chess and how it's really complicated," adds Baldwin. "It's really a game of checkers. It's about how quick can you make a decision and move fast.
"I want to do what really gives me a buzz and that's defence. I've been fortunate to work with some of the best defence coaches and it's been good speaking to them over the course of the last few weeks.
"I don't want to overcomplicate things. That's what Shaun was so good at with emotional connection and the right amount of detail. I have quite simple defensive principles and that's what I'll judge on us.
"If we do everything in our power and it doesn't work, I'll take responsibility. When Wales lost to England in 2017, I remember the policy was 'long and on'. Foxy's kicked the ball long from an exit ruck. England have gone two shift passes to score in the other corner and win the game.
"On the Monday, boys were sketchy, wondering who is getting the blame for this. Shaun gets up and says 'boys, that's my fault, should have said in that situation when we've got all back-rows in a ruck, we need to go an extra phase to get them back on their feet and give us a better kick-chase line'.
"The boys knew 100 per cent that it wasn't Shaun's fault we'd lost that Test match, but the fact he'd put his hand up to take the blame, that's how you get buy-in. You haven't necessarily got to lose to get people to buy in but that's how you get it. That's where coaches live and die by what they said."
Another of his former coaches, and an ex-team-mate, Adam Jones, provided some more wisdom for Baldwin to take forward.
"My biggest thing is learning how to teach," he says. "It's something I spoke to Adam about at Quins. There's probably never going to be a lack of knowledge. I like the analogy Adam used: 'you can do an A-level in English, but it doesn't make you an English teacher'. I have to learn how to teach."
He has leaned on others for advice and is clearly a sponge for knowledge. As well as high-profile rugby figures, he has a thirst for learning via podcasts, taking little bits of wisdom wherever he can. "I really like Conor McGregor's mindset," he adds. "A lot of the stuff he does is nuts, but his mindset is good and I try to instil that in others."
Crucially, he is fully aware of putting his own stamp on everything. "I'm speaking to so many people that I'm trying not to be a diluted version of others. I want to be an amalgamation of what I believe in, but ultimately it needs my own stamp. Otherwise, people won't buy in. I want to be genuine and honest.
"I've always said this to coaches over the years when I've had difference of opinions, it's easy for me to say when I'm a player because ultimately it's not on me if it doesn't work. If I tell you something that you don't believe in and you go with it and it doesn't work, unfortunately it's your issue.
"Now the shoe's on the other foot. What I believe in is what I hang my hat on. Codders has been really good with that. It's not that I'm a mouthpiece for what he believes in. I'll sit down with him and go through what I believe is the right way to defend. He'll question it and as long as I come up with a strong reason why, he'll back me."
Following on from that English A-level analogy, Baldwin understands the importance of language both on and off the pitch. For instance, he knows that simply calling 'yeah, yeah, yeah' when in support of a team-mate doesn't offer much in the way of information for that player, while he admits he has already learned the value of finishing team meetings with a closing line that encourages questions from players.
Life experiences in general have also formed his understanding of what he needs to offer in coaching. Baldwin is dyslexic, so knows better than most that everyone digests information in different ways.
His experiences from years gone by will also inform how he will approach the human element of coaching. When Baldwin was younger, the occasional fight had threatened to derail his career before it had even begun.
"I was a nightmare when I was younger," he admits. "I woke up in a couple of prisons cells after a night out, being a nuisance. That's what I look back on now, having done some talks in Parc Prison, is don't let people tell you what you can and can't do - in the right way, now, within the law!
"A big thing for me was when I left Bridgend Athletic to go to Bridgend, one of the players at the time asked why I was going to Bridgend as it's not like I'd ever play for Wales. I remember my first home cap against Australia, in that moment when I came on, if I'd listened to that guy, I'd have stayed in my comfort zone and never gone anywhere.
"I'm a big believer as a coach that you have to feel something, so why not feel unbeatable? You may not be the best, but you'll be a whole lot closer if you believe you're going to be. I'll never tell my children that 'you can't'. What someone 'can't', someone else 'can' so why not them?"
That is the mindset he will be pushing as he continues to watch training through the eyes of a coach. For Baldwin the coach, the next chapter is about to begin.
