If there's a footballer who knows a thing or two about greatness, it's Roy Keane.
With seven Premier League titles, four FA Cups and a Champions League - not to mention a glut of individual accolades - the former Manchester United midfielder has few peers when it comes to accruing silverware.
But if there's a pundit who knows a thing or two about controversial soundbite punditry, it's Roy Keane.
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And his assertion over the weekend that Liverpool's success under Jurgen Klopp has not been sufficient to make them a great team has prompted fierce debate and provided ammunition for those who keen to belittle the Reds' recent achievements on the strength of their disappointing current campaign as they move from one era to the next under the German.
But is Keane right?
First of all, it's important to consider what actually constitutes a team. Squads don't remain static from one season to the next - although, if that were the case, the meltdown from supporters for whom transfers are their lifeblood would be pure box office - but, certainly with winning teams, the majority of the core playing staff remains the same for around three to four years.
Keane spent more than a decade at Old Trafford and the team that won his first Premier League title in 1994 was markedly different to the one that claimed the treble in 1999, with the side that helped him lift his last title championship in 2003 again having evolved. That's three successful teams.
At Liverpool, a comparison can be made with the reign of Bob Paisley who, in nine years in charge, effectively constructed three different title-winning teams who each also won at least one European Cup - one with Kevin Keegan leading the forward line, another with Kenny Dalglish the fulcrum, and a third with Ian Rush the spearhead.
Unlike Paisley, Klopp didn't inherit a squad that was accustomed to lifting trophies. It took time to mould before finally hitting its stride in 2018 - helped, in no small part, by having reached the Champions League final that year.
And during the four-season period between 2018/19 and 2021/22, Liverpool won not only the Champions League and Premier League, but also the Club World Cup, FA Cup and League Cup. And, for completists, the UEFA Super Cup also, while the Community Shield was lifted before this campaign. Basically, every competition the Reds entered in that time, they won once. They also finished runners-up in the Premier League twice while recording 90-plus points tallies and also lost another Champions League final.
Don't forget, of course, this was during a time when the endless riches of Manchester City warped the landscape of English football like never before. United, Arsenal and previous Liverpool winning teams never had to contend with opponents sporting such an obvious financial advantage.
The number of other English clubs to have performed a clean sweep of every available honour in such a timeframe? None. In fact, only United and Chelsea have also won the Club World Cup, although neither managed to win the four other major honours within a four-year period either side of being world champions.
Keane, then, is wrong, his silly claim one of many to have been misled by the Reds' obvious troubles this campaign. Not only was Jurgen Klopp's first peak Liverpool team one of the greatest in English football, there is a strong argument they are the greatest in terms of having achieved an unparalleled breadth of dominance during their peak.
Much will depend, however, on how domestic cups and world gongs are judged in comparison to league titles, their importance having shifted over the years. Certainly, Liverpool and United have both previously won three titles in a row while also being crowned European champions. And while the current City iteration has yet to taste European success, they have racked up enough Premier League titles for their standing to be unquestioned. Nobody doubts the greatness of these teams.
So Liverpool's first successful side under Klopp should not be treated any differently. And to paraphrase Keane himself, anyone who thinks otherwise is perhaps acting like a baby. Although you can tell him that.
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