A key witness at the robodebt royal commission has been shown evidence contradicting his claims he didn’t know the unlawful “income averaging” method was being used by Centrelink, the inquiry heard.
The commission is investigating why the Coalition program used so-called “income averaging” to raise hundreds of thousands of Centrelink debts between 2015 and 2019 despite Department of Social Services (DSS) lawyers warning it would be unlawful.
Former Department of Human Services (DHS) general manager of business integrity Mark Withnell told the commission on Friday he couldn’t explain emails and other documents he’d seen referring to the use of income averaging in the program.
Withnell was asked about his involvement in the 2015 budget process that saw the robodebt proposal adopted, saying he told his boss, deputy secretary Malisa Golightly, income averaging could not be used due to DSS’s concerns.
Withnell told the commission he believed there had been “agreement” to proceed with the plan without income averaging being used.
The inquiry has heard in late February 2015 DHS officials changed the new policy proposal cabinet documents outlining the robodebt plan, removing references to income averaging and claiming, incorrectly, the program wouldn’t change how Centrelink issued debts.
According to the commissioner, Catherine Holmes AC SC, the language was changed to get the plan approved through possible collusion between officials across the two departments or potentially because DHS officials “deceived” their DSS counterparts.
After saying he did not know income averaging was being used, Withnell was shown documents discussing how the robodebt scheme was working in practice.
The inquiry heard Withnell had made handwritten notes on one briefing document that explained that robodebts were raised using “matched PAYG data”.
Counsel assisting the commission, Angus Scott KC, said the document made it “abundantly clear” income averaging was being used under the scheme.
Withnell maintained he was unaware, saying “for whatever reason I didn’t pick it up at the time”.
Scott said the information was “manifestly contrary to the position that was put to cabinet, isn’t it?”
“It’s inconsistent with what I had understood was the intention,” he said. “And I don’t have any immediate explanation for why I didn’t pick that up at the time, because I had raised that issue many times, that we couldn’t raise a debt based on the PAYG data.”
Scott put to Withnell that despite his claims of ignorance “you well knew all along that this is exactly what the process was going to be”.
Scott said the changes to the robodebt policy proposals were “made in order to get the proposal across the line” but would not alter how it worked.
Withnell rejected the allegations. “That’s not correct in my view,” Withnell said. “It’s certainly not my recollection and certainly not my intent.”
Holmes said Withnell’s position was at odds with two other DHS officials, Scott Britton and Jason Ryman, who were more directly involved in designing the proposal. Both said it was clear averaging would be used. Britton on Thursday described Withnell as “very hands on” and someone who wanted to be across detail.
Shown a separate summary he’d created explaining how the robodebt scheme worked, Withnell pointed out the language had originally come from another official, Karen Harfield.
He later said he was not absolutely sure he had read the information, adding it was a “febrile” and “chaotic” environment and that many staff were going on stress leave.
“I just put them together to provide to Ms Golightly at a time when everyone was very busy,” Withnell said.
The inquiry was then shown a later email Withnell sent to Golightly with the subject line “possible sentence”. The email contained a description of the robodebt program with reference to income averaging.
“Do you accept they are your words Mr Withnell?” Scott asked.
He replied: “I’m not sure if they are my words or whose words at this point in time … There was information flying everywhere.”
Withnell said there were many “random requests for information” and “it was hard to keep track”, adding he’d just come back from leave and had been away from the robodebt project for some time.
The inquiry continues.
