Anas Sarwar has said there will be no austerity under a Labour government as he fended off accusations from the SNP during an ill-tempered BBC Scotland leaders’ debate.
The first minister and SNP leader John Swinney repeatedly claimed on Tuesday evening that “independent experts said there would be £18bn of cuts after this election whether the Conservatives or Labour party form the government”. The audience loudly applauded Sarwar when he countered: “Read my lips: no austerity under Labour.”
Swinney told the audience that “Anas is not being straight with you” – quoting research from the Institute for Fiscal Studies, Institute for Government and Joseph Rowntree Foundation and arguing that Labour had “accepted the fiscal constraints of the Tories”.
Sarwar responded: “I will not disagree when it comes to the carnage the Conservatives have imposed on this country, and the state of their public finances. In 23 days’ time the choice that people have is that they can wake up to five more years of Rishi Sinak, Liz Truss… or we can get rid of the whole sleazy lot of them.”
During the debate, broadcast from Glasgow University’s Bute Hall in front of an audience of Scottish voters, the chair Stephen Jardine struggled at times to maintain order as Sarwar, Swinney and the Scottish Conservative leader Douglas Ross shouted over one another.
The hour-long programme was punctuated by audience questions expressing frustration with the cost of living and the state of public services – which Swinney’s Scottish government is responsible for – alongside attacks on the SNP leader’s record from his political opponents.
Asked about his vision for the NHS, Swinney’s answer was interrupted first by the Liberal Democrat leader, Alex Cole-Hamilton, and then Sarwar shouting “You’ve had 17 years”, referring to the SNP’s incumbency at Holyrood.
After Swinney deflected a question about education in Glasgow on to Labour councillors’ failings, an angry audience member told him to “stop passing the buck”.
Ross attacked Swinney on tax rises – telling the audience: “John is not being honest that he has made Scotland the highest-taxed part of the UK”.
Swinney said that the Scottish child payment, which has been welcomed as “game-changing” by child poverty campaigners, was funded by the Scottish government taking “a hard decision on increasing taxation for higher earners”.
Scottish Greens co-leader Lorna Slater said her time in government with the SNP had taught her that the Westminster block grant “puts you in impossible positions”. It was a reason, she argued, for Scots to support independence.
Sarwar appealed to independence supporters to vote Labour on 4 July. “We may disagree on the final destination for Scotland, but we can all agree we need change and we have to get rid of this rotten Tory government,” he said.
One woman in the audience told Swinney that the SNP had not fulfilled its 2021 manifesto promise of free school meals for all primary children, while also telling Ross that she had “no problem with paying more tax to lift children of Scotland out of poverty”.
The expectation was that Ross’s opponents would make much of his announcement that he will stand down as leader of the Scottish Conservatives on 4 July, amid growing internal pressure over his multiple roles in the party and fresh allegations about expenses claims.
But it was left to Jardine to ask: “Why should anyone in Scotland vote for a party you don’t even want to lead?”
