Prison for the last 19 years has been "horrific" reveals Michael O'Brien, who has spent his time doing more than 50 courses and says he has even had letters from Bestwood crime boss Colin Gunn - the man who went to prison for plotting to murder O'Brien's parents at their chalet-style home on the Lincolnshire coast.
Gunn was jailed with two other men over conspiracy to murder John, O'Brien's step dad, and O'Brien's mum, Joan Stirland, after O'Brien began his jail time, a minimum of 24 years, later reduced to 18 years, in 2004, for the murder of 22-year-old shopfitter Marvyn Bradshaw.
O'Brien's parole hearing is on March 20 this year, and comes after he has served the minimum term of a life sentence; a time when he is planning a fresh start working with HMP: The Herbert Marvin Project, a CIC - community interest - company formed with the intention to change the mindset of young individuals that they come into contact.
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Nottinghamshire Live was interviewing Herbert, a reformed criminal, who was addicted to heroin and crack cocaine from the age of 11, and whose jail sentences and time on remand are almost the equivalent of O'Brien's solid 19-year stretch, when O'Brien called him from prison.
This gave us the opportunity to speak with O'Brien for the first time - and for him to set the record straight - about the killing of Mr Bradshaw, who he has confessed for the first time he shot that fateful night - something he denied during his trial at Nottingham Crown Court before he was convicted of murder.
While freedom for O'Brien beckons, just how hard has prison been for a man whose crime caused horrific ramifications? The ramifications included the death of his own parents, news which was broken to him just six days after he was jailed.
He told Nottinghamshire Live: "A lot of stuff happened. I had to go through a lot of things. I've learnt a lot of lessons." He has studied sociology among some 55 courses he has taken.
Asked if he has got used to prison, he said: "To be honest with you, I don't think I will ever get used to it. Like, I'm never going to accept this is my life.
"I accept I made a mistake and this is part of the punishment for that mistake. But I'm never going to accept that this is my life. It probably has got easier in some ways as time has gone on. I really find it hard to accept that this is my life."
Herbert said O'Brien, who is known by the nickname Jay Jay, had spent the whole of his life in prison to be who is today. Herbert said: "Why would you want to do that? Come to the HMP (Herbert Marvin Project) and we will find out what you are meant to be.
"You can hear it in his voice. We are not pretending. We have had that life. We have lived that life. It ain't worth it man. Not for another second. We all deserve prison.
"I deserve every sentence I have got. I have never had a problem with the police. I accepted getting nicked. I got through a lot more than what I got convicted for. It was a game of chance. It was the game of our lives. It was the game of life; our life.
"We chose not to be corporate people and work. We chose to be criminals and we had to pay that price. Now the difference between Jay Jay and I and others in my network, is that we actually are accountable for who we were, what we have done and where we have been.
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"And we want to change the narrative. We don't want anyone to follow in our footsteps to end up like me, to end up like Jay Jay, to end up like Luke (Luke was chopped in the head with a machete and is totally blind).
"We are the three musketeers who are going to change the narrative in this country. If we can't, no one can." Herbert, who lives in a Portakabin in London, has 77.8k subscribers on his YouTube channel @marvinherbert. He has dedicated his life to guiding the youth down the right path and away from crime and is looking to develop a programme with O'Brien, from Aspley, on forgiveness.
Herbert jokes he only has one eye and one testicle after an attempted assassination in Spain. Putting this aside, he insists he is not trying to get O'Brien parole.
If O'Brien is successful at the hearing though, it's Herbert's plan to try to get him housed outside Nottingham and near where Herbert's projects are running. "Anyone breaking the law on my shift, will be thrown under the bus," says Herbert. "I'm not playing with no one."
O'Brien said he had it drilled into him when he was a kid, "anything you want to do, you can do it. If you really want to do it, you can do it". He believes wholeheartedly that with Herbert and Luke that they make a lot of positive things happen.
"Understand, there is always going to be people upset about what happened to Marvyn and the things I did, my actions back in the day, I can't change them," added O'Brien. "There's nothing I can do about none of them apart from owning what I have done and try and move forwards and make some positives out of the negatives. That's the only thing I can do.
"With HMP: The Marvin Project behind me and Luke, I believe we are capable of doing a lot a lot of good things."
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