A man accused of harassing former health secretary Matt Hancock by shouting conspiracy theories and barging into him in a clash over the Covid pandemic on Tuesday claimed “he literally walked into me”.
Mr Hancock had previously told magistrates he felt “physically intimidated” and feared being pushed down a London underground escalator by anti-vaccination protester Geza Tarjanyi.
Tarjanyi, 62, of Leyland, in Lancashire, has denied causing harassment without violence.
He is accused of shoulder-barging the MP and shouting “ridiculous conspiracy theories” on two separate occasions on 19 and 24 January this year.
Giving evidence on Tuesday he told Westminster Magistrates he was a full-time campaigner and journalist living in a protest camp in Westminster at the time of the alleged offences.
The court was played a video of the clash on January 19 in which he asks “how many people have you murdered as health secretary? Why are you walking into me.”
He told the court: “I was there to ask questions... build a case about AstraZeneca… I did not barge into him.”
His defence counsel Parveen Mansoor asked him in the witness box: “Are you an anti-vaxxer” and he replied “absolutely not”.
On whether he was a conspiracy theorist he told the court: “It’s laughable. It’s clutching at straws it’s lazy journalism.
“I questioned people like Chris Whitty. I questioned Michael Gove, Rishi Sunak. .. it was opportunist as they were walking past.”
He said he wanted to hold leaders to account on their strategy towards Covid.
The defendant told the court: “I wanted to question Matt Hancock. I was recording to protect me and the person.
“My intention was to get the phone on to record it and ask him questions.
“Other MPs just stop they are happy to speak to the press. I assumed he had something to hide.
“I was just like a journalist asking questions.
“I was against the wall, he’s literally walked into me… I briefly brushed another person. I said sorry.
“I was speaking loudly and clearly. I was absolutely not verbally abusive.”
He denied calling him a “scumbag” amounted to abuse because of Hancock’s policies.
Tarjanyi told the court that he would not have followed Mr Hancock if he had stopped to answer questions.
At one stage he asked on the recording: “How many British people did you kill as Health Secretary.”
Footage of a clash with Mr Hancock on January 24 that was played to the court showed Tarjanyi following him through a Tube tunnel.
He said to him: “You murdering scumbag. This is Matt Hancock the murderer… you are a celebrity get yourself in prison.”
Mr Hancock previously told the told a trial: “As a public figure, I can’t recall a time when I felt as intimidated as this.”
He said the first occasion occurred as he and a member of his staff passed an anti-vaccination protest near parliament. Tarjanyi filmed him, asked why he had “killed so many people” and shoulder-barged him during a five-minute interaction.
“I felt physically intimidated and felt like I needed to get to a place of safety. He was being completely unreasonable. I didn’t know what further unreasonable actions he would take,” the MP, who was called as a witness, told the court.
He added: “It made me feel unsafe going about my place of work. It made me feel frustrated that instead of engaging in a normal debate, someone was trying to intimidate me. I thought that was unacceptable.
“I had a pretty good impression he had been taken over by these ridiculous conspiracy theories.”
A few days later, at about 8am, after Mr Hancock had had breakfast with the prime minister, Tarjanyi followed the MP through Westminster Tube station and onto a train for about 10 minutes, again accusing him of murdering people, the court heard.
Mr Hancock said he recognised the defendant and felt “more intimidated” because he was on his own. He tried to get Transport for London (TfL) staff to intervene, he said.
Tarjanyi then began harassing “anybody who was going to come to my aid” and continued following him through the station.
Mr Hancock said he stopped at the top of an escalator to “resolve the situation” but felt the defendant pushing him towards it.
“Obviously I was extremely worried at this time. If I had lost my balance at that point, I would have tumbled down the escalator.
“It’s a long escalator, I could see a long escalator moving away from me, and I was being pushed from behind.”
He said he feared Tarjanyi was willing to commit a crime, alleging the defendant had told him he “wanted to go to court”.
“One of the reasons I hadn’t reported the incident on January 19 was because I don’t want these people with these untrue beliefs to get further publicity from harassing me.”
Tarjanyi then got on a Jubilee Line train with Mr Hancock and accused him of murdering “millions of people”, before they were separated at Bond Street station.
The defendant’s mobile phone footage of the second incident, played to the court, showed him calling Mr Hancock a “murderous scumbag” and saying lockdown amounted to the harassment of the country because of his “lies and deceit”.
Parveen Mansoor, defending, said Tarjanyi denied any physical contact and believed it was Hancock who “barged into him”.
She added: “He denies assaulting him in any way shape or form.”She suggested Mr Hancock had not been pushed during the incidents, arguing the defendant merely walked into him after he stopped.
Mr Hancock responded: “Oh, please. The idea that it was my fault he walked into me is ridiculous.”
The trial continues.
