Time for me to go off and come up with a Talking Point about this game. Thanks for your company, correspondence and mild expressions of despair. I’ll be back on Saturday lunchtime, when United try to bounce back at Fulham. Before that, they entertain Newcastle in the Carabao Cup, another game they could easily mess up, while City get a well-earned week off.
In the meantime, do have a look at Jamie Jackson’s match report.
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United may be a mess, but they still have a huge global following. This is from war-torn Ukraine.
I'm at the Manchester United bar in Kyiv, Bestia, home of the Kyiv Reds, for #MUNMCI.
— Jared Goyette (@JaredGoyette) October 29, 2023
The chairmen, Anatolii, explains why gatherings like this are important for their mental health. They also raise money and buy gear for the dozens of members serving in the ZSU at the front.… pic.twitter.com/2UeLX0T3EJ
“I can’t see Ten Hag lasting the season out at the moment,” says Kevin Wilson. “Maybe he’d be better off (though not financially!) going back to Ajax and sorting them out, then hoping the next big job isn’t an absolute basket case?”
A declaration of love
Haaland presents Silva with the Player of the Match award, saying he agrees with that decision. He gives him a hug and says, “I love you!”
You didn’t get that in Bobby Charlton’s day.
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A good question from Malcolm Shuttleworth in Germany. “How many hairdryers would Fergie need if he was still managing this shower?
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Fair comment.
A team effort for our second goal 🤝 pic.twitter.com/vuON3IEoSJ
— Manchester City (@ManCity) October 29, 2023
Erling Haaland and Bernardo Silva are giving an interview – the Little and Large Show. “It was a good game for us,” says Bernardo, “apart from a few simple balls that we lost. The way we controlled the game, especially the first 30 minutes of the second half, was very good. What we lacked against Arsenal, we were fabulous here.” He sounds like a manager.
The stats are damning for United. On passes in the final third, they lost 215-74. On shots, 21-7. On expected goals, it shouldn’t have been 3-0: it should have been 4-1 – United 1.03, City 3.94. “An outstanding performance,” says Micah Richards. “We’re watching some of the best football the Premier League has ever seen.”
Time for a couple of emails. “Ten Hag should have played Bobby Charlton’s ghost,” says Ray O’Hanlon. “At least we could dream of a 40 yard cannon...”
“My daughter,” says Tom Atkins, has just asked me ‘Why is Man United’s squad a bit weird?’, and I know what she means.”
The upshot is that City are all but level with Arsenal – same number of points (24 from ten games), same goal difference (+15). Arsenal have scored one more (23-22), so they remain second and City are third for now.
United are still eighth, which is where they finished three seasons in a row as the glorious team featuring Best, Charlton and Law faded to grey. The table doesn’t lie: United have lost as many games as they’ve won (five apiece), and the losses have been by wider margins (goal difference -4). They have been worse than all the big six bar Chelsea – and worse than Villa, Newcastle and Brighton to boot.
Pep hugs all his players, one by one. After those wobbles at Molineux and the Emirates, City are themselves again. Erling Haaland scored twice to extend his lead at the top of the goal-scoring pops.
United may have been bright early on and a little unlucky with the penalty, but from half-time onwards they were made to look like amateurs. The margin of victory ends up the same as this time last year, when they lost 6-3.
FULL TIME! Man United 0-3 Man City
It was only in doubt for the first ten minutes.
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90+4 min Antony and Doku are still chuntering at each other. It is going to be Haaland, but the kick is charged down by the wall.
90+4 min City have a free kick in an inviting position near the D. Will they let Haaland take it?
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90+3 min Another booking for United, and it’s Bruno Fernandes, apparently for dissent. It’s his fourth of the season. He is not a good captain when United have a bad day.
90+2 min Antony goes into the book for a blatant kick at Doku. “Ridiculous,” says Neville.
90+1 min There will be four more minutes. Time for a fourth goal, surely.
90 min Garnacho is bringing his usual energy, but it’s all over bar the chanting.
89 min The player of the match is the puller of the strings, Bernardo Silva. He is chosen by Gary Neville, who says he’s been “a joy to watch”.
88 min Some subs at last from Pep, who sends on Doku for Grealish, who played very well, and Kovacic for Alvarez. Not sure he needs to defend this lead.
86 min Ten Hag gives the dice one last roll, bringing on Antony and Anthony Martial for Rashford and Eriksen. So Mount makes another move, back into central midfield.
85 min A flicker from United as their fans head for the exits in the rain. Rashford wins a corner, Fernandes hits it to Eriksen near the D, but his shot is swiftly blocked.
84 min “Second half,” says Gary Neville, “they’ve been obliterated, United.” He’s been their best performer on the day.
82 min City cruise forward again as their fans do the Poznan. Foden, in the centre-forward position again, tries a tribute to Wayne Rooney, a derby scissor kick. It goes just wide.
80 min Rodri had ages to take a shot, which Onana could only parry into the path of Haaland to his left. Haaland was unselfish enough to cross for Foden, who tapped in. There’s still time for this to turn into a rout.
GOAL! Man United 0-3 Man City (Foden 80)
And that is that.
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78 min No subs yet from Pep: his team are having too much fun. When they get into the United box, they are outnumbered by seven to five, but they still knock the ball around with impunity.
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76 min Fernandes has moved to No 10, as mooted, and Mount is now on the right. The cameras find Gareth Southgate, looking pensive in a grey mac.
73 min A mess in the United box which they just get away with. Two changes from Ten Hag: Reguilon replaces Lindelof at left-back. But the left-winger who may profit from that is Garnacho, who’s coming on for Hojlund. So Rashford will move into the middle and Hojlund’s wait for a PL goal will go on for another week.
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71 min After some patient build-up, Grealish slips in Haaland, who can smell that hat-trick… but Onana comes out well to save the shot, David de Gea style.
“Not sure at which point this is declared a thrashing” says Rick Harris, “but it could get rather ugly as Ten Hag appears to lack the ability to change the dynamic. Not sure Mainoo is a good idea, but Garnacho and Hannibal would inject some energy surely?” Good call.
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69 min Chance for United! Rashford is sent through the middle by Eriksen. He does well to carve out some space under pressure from Walker, but then he drags the ball wide. That’s his season in a nutshell.
69 min And another corner, coolly defended by City.
67 min McTominay’s does well to win the ball high up, then misfires with the pass. But now United have a corner.
66 min Mount sets Dalot free down the right, but his cross is the worst of the lot, drilled straight to John Stones.
63 min United finally see a bit of the ball. Eriksen has a cross, but can’t find the three red shirts in the middle; Fernandes has one too, with the same result. Ten Hag may need to push him back into his natural habitat as the No 10.
63 min City’s latest shot is a wild one from Julian Alvarez, who has quietly become an ever-present.
61 min Erik ten Hag needs to do something fast. Maybe put Reguilon on at left-back and get Lindelof into Amrabat’s spot in midfield. Or send for Kobbie Mainoo.
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60 min Nobody has ever scored two PL hat-tricks against Manchester United. They just have to hope Haaland doesn’t know that.
58 min City have five men in the box and one in the D. They weave another tapestry and it would end in a goal if any of those queuing up had gambled and gone in to meet Grealish’s crisp low cross.
56 min City are back up to third now, behind Arsenal by one on goal difference. They may soon be second.
55 min City are beginning to lord it. Walker plays a nonchalant back heel. He and Rodri are practically playing as forwards.
53 min United paid the price there for taking off Amrabat. McTominay has his hands too full in defensive midfield.
50 min That was far too easy. A comfy City move ends with Silva free on the left, able to play another of those lethal chips of his. It’s on a plate for Haaland, who nods it firmly into the net, just as he should have with the chance that Onana saved.
Haaland is well on his way to another derby hat-trick.
GOAL! United 0-2 City (Haaland 49)
It’s that man again!
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49 min Bernardo sends a lovely chipped cross in to Foden, who can’t quite control it.
48 min Shot! Fernandes from distance, after a quick corner from Rashford. It was dipping on Ederson, who did well to gather it.
46 min Mount, who seems to be tasked with marking Rodri, wins a free kick off Kyle Walker, 40 yards out.
Ten Hag is sending on a sub. Mason Mount replaces Sofyan Amrabat, with McTominay dropping back to shield the defence. That may not fill United fans with renewed hope.
United’s best players, apart from Onana, have been McTominay and Rashford. Both are products of the academy, brought up with the folklore of this fixture.
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For City, Rodri, Grealish, Foden and Haaland have been consistently threatening. And Bernardo Silva has been the godfather.
HALF-TIME! Man United 0-1 Man City
An entertaining first half ends with City ahead, and rightly so – though United did start and finish brightly. Rasmus Hojlund gave away the penalty from which Erling Haaland duly scored, but he has done just enough in a patchy display not to be seen as the villain of the piece. Time for a breather.
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45+4 min SAVE! Onana, from Haaland, point blank. the header is within reach but Onana still does very well to palm it out.
45+3 min You’re not going to believe this, but United have a corner. Maguire gets his mighty head to it but can’t quite keep it down.
45+2 min Close! Rashford, on the right wing now, finds McTominay in the centre-forward position, and his powerful shot brings a fine save out of Emerson.
45+1 min There will be four minutes of added time. United celebrate by getting forward…
45 min And another City corner. Also headed by Rashford. He is now playing as the third centre-back.
44 min Yet another City corner, headed away again – by Rashford of all people.
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44 min The last 45 passes in the final third have been played by someone in a blue shirt.
42 min Flashpoint! Foden and Amrabat end up nose to nose after the one fouls the other. and Amrabat feels there are some afters. Both go into the book.
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40 min Maguire heads the corner away. A moment later, Fernandes fouls Grealish as they go for a header on City’s left wing.
38 min Grealish goes on a wiggly run and takes a shot, blocked by Amrabat. This will be City’s sixth corner.
38 min Save! Alvarez takes the free kick and Onana bats it away from the top bin.
36 min Grealish causing trouble again as Evans fouls him three feet outside the box. “I’ve been there,” says Gary Neville.
35 min One of City’s secrets is that a player who barely gets mentioned because he seldom shoots may well be running the show. Bernardo Silva is doing that today.
34 min In the last 66 league games when they’ve taken the lead, City have lost one. This does not look like being the second.
33 min Grealish plays a gorgeous little ball, a nutmeg through somebody’s legs, and United are relieved to escape with a goal kick.
31 min Hojlund gets a sniff of redemption as Foden’s misplaced pass lets through the middle. He stumbles over it but recovers to tee up Fernandes, who can only shoot over from a tight angle.
30 min Maguire, advancing into midfield, has the chance to send Fernandes through on the right, but he can’t get his chip over Gvardiol.
29 min United have the ball for a bit but it’s at the back and you can see the jitters. After a promising start, this could go horribly wrong.
27 min Onana was booked too, for time-wasting before the pen.
GOAL! Man United 0-1 Man City (Haaland 26, pen)
Low to Onana’s left, not middled but easily strong enough. Onana goes to his right.
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25 min André Onana, who saved one on Tuesday, has to do it again. Against Haaland.
Penalty to City!
“No brainer,” says Gary Neville… even though “Rodri throws himself to the ground”.
Penalty to City?
Paul Tierney stops the game, ominously for United.
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21 min City win a free kick in the right-half zone. Dalot does well to get it clear. Rodri wants a penalty for manhandling by Hojlund, and it is being looked at.
“Long, long-time United fan here,” says John Hubbard, “currently stuck in Montpellier Airport. They say bad things come in threes – EasyJet flight delayed 1 hour 45 minutes, England failing badly against India in the cricket, so I’m not optimistic about a home win at Old Trafford. Maybe if Crerand and Aston put their boots on ...”
20 min And from the corner, it’s Grealish who shoots. Onana pushes it round the post.
19 min Grealish, who looks very much in the mood, wins a corner on the left.
18 min City have played a few crosses in the air, which is a surprise when you’re up against Maguire and Evans. The latest one is thumped away by the head of Maguire.
17 min Possession has been 48pc to 52. A pair of numbers that means nothing can go right.
16 min A glimmer for Haaland! But Onana is out quickly to extinguish it. A minute later, Rodri tries a screamer but skies it. “Rashford did just enough to put him off,” says Gary Neville.
15 min Hojlund does seem to be a big-game player. Now he wins a free kick 40 yards out by craftily backing into Dias. It even leads to a brief spell of United possession.
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12 min Another piece of pickpocketing from United. Hojlund is all alone, advancing through the middle. Rashford catches up but Hojlund can’t see him and goes sideways to Eriksen instead, whereupon City get enough men back.
11 min City knock the ball around. Hojlund pinches it, but he takes too long and fails to slip it through to McTominay, unmarked on the right.
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9 min City are now looking menacing.
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7 min Chance for City! Onana saves off the line from Foden and then paws the ball away from Haaland, just in the nick. The move was made by a lovely ball from Rodri to Walker, racing to the byline.
6 min Another flicker of hope for United as Rashford is released on the left. He tries to play in his underlapping full-back… Lindelof. It doesn’t go well. One factor in Rashford’s struggles this season is that he has had a motley core of left-backs behind him. When he got a proper one, for England, he promptly scored.
4 min City get hold of the ball. A stat box discloses that United have not scored in the first 15 mins of any game this season. Still, getting into the City box twice almost counts as progress after the tepid first halves against Sheffield United and Copenhagen.
3 min United get forward! A neat lay-off from Hojlund to Rashford, who wiggles into the box. Rashford to Eriksen to Dalot, whose cross is overhit. But then United come again and McTominay has a glimmer of a chance that vanishes with a feeble shot.
1 min Scott McTominay kicks off and United go straight back to Onana. Fernandes is on the right, as expected.
United have laid on a line-up of legends from both sides of Manchester. On they come, all suited and booted, a little stooped: Pat Crerand, Mike Summerbee, John Aston, Alex Stepney and Brian Kidd. The late Sixties, still alive, if not kicking. They join the teams on the centre-circle which has turned into a grey disc for Bobby Charlton.
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The players march out into a stadium full of noise. One stand has one message: SIR BOBBY, it says in huge letters. No need for a surname.
“Varane in the playing XI?” says Pramith Pillai. “Please tell me that is true. We can’t afford to carry both Harry and Jonny. :(” Ha, sorry, that was just my mistake, now corrected. I prepared the teams in advance and thought Varane was a cert. Great servant though Jonny Evans has been for United, Erling Haaland must be licking his lips.
“Hojlund,” says Jeff Sax, “doesn’t begin to match Haaland.” Well that is undoubtedly true. But this game might just suit Hojlund. His best performances for Ten Hag have come at Arsenal and Bayern Munich, when United were playing on the counter, as they may well do this afternoon. He’s got the pace to score on the break: it’s the packed penalty areas that he finds difficult.
The first email of the day is in. “As a neutral,” says Rick Harris, “much as I would like United to win to make the title race more interesting et pour encourager les autres, I simply can’t see anything other than an absolute thrashing for the boys in red from the blue robots.” You may well be right! But derbies are funny things, and these players, unlike those at the London clubs, don’t get to play many of them.
Pre-match reading for United fans
During lockdown, Rob Smyth and I started a Substack newsletter about United, which you can subscribe to free. We analyse almost every game they play – it’s a tough job, but someone’s gotta do it. And we throw in the odd juicy surprise, usually something historical and magisterial from Rob. The latest piece is from me, looking at the rom-com developing in the United defence: When Harry hugged André.
Pre-match reading for City fans
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City fall to fifth (for now)
There are four PL games going on right now. In the very early one, Everton have just pulled off a shock victory at West Ham. More on that here from Rob Smyth. In the others it’s half-time and, more predictably, Villa and Liverpool are winning at home – which means that as it stands, Manchester City are fifth. The indignity! They’re only three places above United, who remain eighth, with a little help from their old friend David Moyes.
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The rise and fall of Mason Mount
It’s only two and a half years since Mason Mount was playing the decisive pass that did for Man City in the Champions League final – a pass so good that even Kai Haivertz was able to convert it into a goal. But Mount’s gift for an assist has deserted him, along with his eye for goal, and even changing clubs has not changed his fortunes. Today, with Casemiro ruled out, he still can’t elbow his way into United’s midfield: the No.10 spot, freed up by Bruno Fernandes shifting to the right, has gone to Christian Eriksen. Mount is left hoping that redemption beckons from the bench, as Eriksen seldom appears for more than an hour.
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Teams in full: City
Pep has a full hand to choose from, bar De Bruyne. On paper this lot have already won, haven’t they?
Man City (nominal 4-2-3-1, shifting to 3-2-4-1) Ederson; Walker, Stones, Dias, Gvardiol; Rodri, Bernardo; Foden, Alvarez, Grealish; Haaland.
Subs: Ortega, Lewis, Ake, Gomez, Bobb, Phillips, Kovacic, Nunes, Doku.
Teams in full: United
Ten Hag’s nightmare with injuries shows no sign of coming to an end. Casemiro isn’t in the squad and Rapha Varane and Sergio Reguilon, who both returned in midweek, are only fit enough for the bench. The one crumb of comfort is that Kobbie Mainoo, who picked up an injury in pre-season, is back among the subs.
Man United (4-3-3 with a whiff of 4-D-2) Onana; Dalot, Evans, Maguire, Lindelof; Amrabat, McTominay, Eriksen; Fernandes, Hojlund, Rashford.
Subs: Bayindir, Varane, Reguilon, Mainoo, Mount, Hannibal, Antony, Martial, Garnacho.
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Teams in brief: Jonny Evans plays!
How do you deal with Erling Haaland? With Leicester City’s centre-backs from 2018, that’s how. Jonny Evans joins Harry Maguire at the heart of the defence. They won’t be short of passion, but they may not bring any pace.
Teams in brief: Grealish in for City
Pep, who has been preferring Jeremy Doku on the left wing, goes back to Jack Grealish today. Otherwise City’s XI is as expected.
Preamble
Afternoon everyone and welcome to the big one. United may only be eighth in the league table, City may only be third, but the Manchester derby still gets the juices flowing. It pulsates with excitement, it vibrates with history, it resonates far beyond Manchester.
This is the 191st competitive meeting between the two sides and the first since each lost a legend from the late Sixties. Bobby Charlton and Franny Lee had a great deal in common. Both were superstars on the field who went on to a seat on the board. Both are still in the top five scorers in the Manchester derby – Lee second-equal on 10 goals, one behind the all-time leader, Wayne Rooney; Charlton fourth-equal (with Sergio Aguero) on nine.
Both did much to propel their team to the top. In 1968, when Charlton lifted the European Cup after scoring twice in the final, City had just won the league championship in Lee’s first season at Maine Road. His manager, Joe Mercer, called him “the final piece in the jigsaw”.
And yet both men also had to swallow plenty of failure. In his five years as United captain Charlton didn’t win a single home derby, losing four in a row before finishing with a goalless draw. City plummeted from the top of the tree to 13th. When Lee returned as chairman in the mid-Nineties, they were relegated from the Premier League. He managed to quit just before they were relegated again, slap in the middle of United’s golden age.
These days even a United fan would have to admit, through gritted teeth, that City are easily the better side and the stronger club. They have a great manager, an outstanding academy, a team with such a clear pattern that you barely notice when their most creative player is missing (Kevin De Bruyne, remember him?). They are so drilled and driven that they can lose a couple of games and remain every pundit’s tip for the title. They could score five today and surprise nobody.
United still have the bigger following, but as a team and an organisation they hardly deserve it. Under the dismal ownership of the Glasers, they’ve turned into the scatty neighbours. When they win, it’s nearly always by a single goal, a moment of individual inspiration. Their forwards have learned how to press but forgotten how to score.
Their manager seems to be following a very decent first season with the difficult second album. He can’t get a tune out of the men he has spent big money on, from Antony to Mason Mount. The only players he has in top form are the ones he tried to sell in the summer, Harry Maguire and Scott McTominay. A draw today would feel like a win.
The bottom line is that Pep Guardiola is twice as likely to prevail today as Erik ten Hag. That’s the story of the past seven Old Trafford derbies in the league (City four wins, United two, one draw). It’s also what the algorithms say: at Opta, they give City a 50pc chance of a win, United only 23. But this is sport, so anything can happen – and it’s a derby, which means that old truism becomes even truer.
Kick-off is at 3.30pm GMT. This sounds bizarre but may actually be a collector’s item: a piece of scheduling that shows some common sense. As summer time came to an end in Britain last night, it will feel like 4.30 on the nation’s body clock. And I’ll be back shortly after 2.30 with the teams.
Cover of today’s United Review. pic.twitter.com/v0uHCQGFVR
— Andy Mitten (@AndyMitten) October 29, 2023
