David Hytner has filed his match report from Old Trafford, so that’s my cue to bow out. Thanks for your company and correspondence, and sorry not to get through it all. There was too much happening, most of it generated by Salah and Diaz, with a little help from poor old Casemiro. In other news, England have wrapped up the Test series against Sri Lanka – but it will surely be Liverpool who hog the back pages tomorrow.
“Whoever thought that Ineos were the answer to Man U’s problems,” says Reto Kohler, “did not look at their sub-par track record with their other clubs (which clearly demonstrates their lack of success, but I bet the desks in Lausanne and Nice are tidy) and now has the proof repeated on a weekly basis. It’s almost as if ETH wants to show them up deliberately for having kept him rather than paid him off.”
Here’s Arne Slot, reinforcing his reputation for keeping calm. “United started really aggressive and we had to fight through that…. Then late on Alisson made two good saves.” He was particularly pleased that Liverpool didn’t let the disallowed goal bother them.
“Please can you not post emails,” says Claire McConnell, “that misuse the word schizophrenic. First of all, it doesn’t mean split personality and secondly (and more importantly) it stigmatizes people with a mental illness. I thought we’d got beyond this and am really sad to see that we haven’t. As a Guardian supporter, I expect better.” And you’re right to. I completely see your point and I’m kicking myself for getting it wrong. Thanks for the email (and the support).
Mo Salah, asked if he recharged his batteries over the summer, comes out with a poetic line. “I spent some time,” he says, “with myself.”
“Liverpool have a better squad than Man U,” says Dan Christmas, “but is it 0-3 better? I think that’s the question Big Jim needs to ask this week. Poch must be warming up the lemons.”
This one came in just before the whistle. “United have been much better,” wrote Stephen Carr, “since Maguire came on. Just saying.” Yes, him and Amad – both of whom started last weekend (when Amad scored). For once in his life, Ten Hag made too many changes.
“Consistently beating mid-table teams,” says Joe Pearson, “is a requirement for a championship contender. So the signs are looking good for Liverpool.” Ha.
The mailbag has been neglected again (more apologies). But here’s an email from our man in Naples, Colum Fordham. “While I take no delight - well, just a little - in seeing United flounder against a vastly superior Liverpool side,” he says, “I am slightly puzzled why Ten Hag should choose to offload McTominay, in my opinion one of Man U’s more reliable and incisive players. But I am pleased the Scotsman has been signed by Napoli and look forward to seeing how he adjusts to life in Serie A and Naples.”
On expected goals, the game was almost close: United 1.36-1.73 Liverpool. On so-called big chances, too: 3-4. But not on runs into the opposition box: 20-45.
United did start and finish the game quite respectably, but all three of their shots on target came when they were already 3-0 down. If you’d had to guess which team had just got a new manager, you would never have said it was Liverpool. They were a machine, running smoothly, while United were haphazard and disjointed.
Correction: United’s goal difference is minus 3, not minus 4. Because of the international break, they now have nearly two weeks to stew on it before trying to improve it in a Saturday lunchtime game at Southampton.
The Liverpool fans are dancing as Trent Alexander-Arnold blows three kisses to them. He very nearly opened the scoring with a goal that was narrowly disallowed.
So Liverpool, like Man City, have a 100pc record. And United, despite going toe to toe with City in the Community Shield, have already lost more league games than they’ve won.
FULL TIME! United 0-3 Liverpool
And that’s it. Not the massacre it threatened to be, but a great result for Arne Slot and a chastening one for Erik ten Hag. It’s also a sad, sad day for Casemiro, who was subbed at half-time after making the mistakes that led to the first two goals.
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90+5 min Liverpool slice through United’s midfield for the umpteenth time. Maguire does well to get a tackle in.
90+4 min Strange but true: Lverpool have had three shots on target. And so have United.
90+2 min Amad, still a bright spark in the rubble, wins a corner. Eriksen takes it with his usual artistry and finds Maguire, who gets in a header and then a cross without really threatening with either.
90+1 min The first of five added minutes. Not sure Anthony Taylor has read the room there.
90 min The man of the match is Luis Diaz. Well, he did score two goals, but it could just as well have been his supplier, Mo Salah.
89 min Nunez goes close with a shot from the D as Mazraoui runs into someone. The VAR looks into a possible penalty, but doesn’t give it.
88 min Bruno Fernandes has a shot, his first I think, and it goes well over the bar. Up the other end, Salah curls in a cross that can’t quite find Gakpo.
86 min Here’s a rare sight for United fans: Christian Eriksen. A regular in Ten Hag’s first season, now close to an outcast, he replaces Joshua Zirkzee. Where’s Scott McTominay when they need him?
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85 min Liverpool need one more goal to go top of the league. United could score one and still be 14th.
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84 min Another Liverpool sub as Andy Robertson gives way to Kostas Tsimikas. This was Robertson’s 300th game for Liverpool.
82 min United nonetheless retain their ability to play as if they’ve only just met. Toby Collyer, so busy and so promising, passes out of play again as Dalot sets off on a run.
81 min United, bizarrely, have been the better team for the past few minutes. Amad, who’s been bright, gets a shot away now, but it’s too high.
79 min Save! And not by a keeper – it’s Mazraoui, shrugging off his brush with concussion to lay his body on the line. He lay down and refused to die.
78 min United chance! And again it’s a Rashford cross, expertly delivered to Zirkzee, who scuffs it at the far post. The crowd were booing Rashford before that, but they picked the wrong man at the wrong time.
77 min United’s goal difference this season is four times worst than last season – minus 4. Only three PL teams have a worse one: Ipswich, Wolves and Everton.
74 min Fernandes, who’s been quiet by his standards, sends Amad down the right. Alisson mops up. Two more Liverpool subs incoming: Nunez for Jota and Bradley for Alexander-Arnold, who, as last week, looks perplexed, though he then remembers the score and flashes a smile towards the travelling supporters.
73 min The cameras find Sir Alex Ferguson. Didn’t his team once go three down and then score five? Though not against Liverpool.
72 min Amad wins a corner on the right. Alisson punches it clear, United come again and Amad’s cross produces a scissor kick from … Martinez! Nice try, but it’s wide.
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71 min Maguire’s first contribution was a header at the far post from the free kick. Then Rashford and Zirkzee again get into the box and show some fight, but there’s no way through.
70 min Gary Neville points out that the home crowd have been doing some booing. Is Ten Hag finally losing the fans?
68 min United are finding something in a hopeless place – some spirit, at least. Garnacho wins a free kick on the right, but then gives way to Amad. And Maguire comes on for De Ligt. A penny for his thoughts.
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67 min Yet another Liverpool attack, but no fourth goal yet. And then United threaten to break but Collyer’s pass to Rashford goes straight out of play.
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66 min Off goes Diaz, who took the first two goals with great composure. His place on the left wing goes to Cody Gakpo.
65 min Matthijs de Ligt could be in trouble here … he gets a yellow after cutting down Diaz. That wasn’t very Ajax.
62 min United chance! Their best one yet, as Rashford battles to carve out a cross and Zirkzee gets ijn a sharp header, saved by the impeccable Alisson.
60 min United manage to get forward, only to go backwards again as Rashford can’t find anyone to pass to. They now look like what they are: an XI that had never lined up before today.
60 min Liverpool surge forward again. They appear to have two extra players.
59 min Salah has now faced United 16 times and scored 15 goals.
58 min Salah comes close again! Over the bar. And again – wide of the far post. This is like the game a couple of years ago that ended 7-0.
No Casemiro, but it’s the same old story. Yet again, United lost the ball in midfield as Mac Allister bullied Mainoo off the ball. Salah’s finish was clinical,
GOAL! United 0-3 Liverpool (Salah 56)
Game over.
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54 min Zirkzee’s supplier was young Toby Collyer, bombing forward and nodding the ball down to him. He seems to be playing as a No 8 with Mainoo (also on a yellow) as the sole pivot. Brave, minister, very brave.
53 min Hang on! Out of nowhere Zirkzee has a shot, drawing a fine save from Alisson.
52 min United are struggling to get out of their own half.
50 min Mazraoui comes back on. Meanwhile Dalot takes a throw-in on the left and finds Zirkzee, whose attempted lay-off to Rashford goes straight out of play.
48 min Harry Maguire and Jonny Evans go for a warm-up. If Mazraoui does have to go off, presumably one of these two will join De Ligt in the middle, Dalot will go to right-back, and Martinez (who is on a yellow) will move out to the left.
46 min Liverpool get forward yet again, though nothing comes of it. There’s another lull as Mazraoui goes down in a worrying way. And United don’t have a full-back on the bench…
Casemiro taken off!
Yes, Ten Hag does have that ruthlessness. He rhas replaced Casemiro with Toby Collyer – off goes the sorcerer, on comes the apprentice.
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On a more serious note… “There was an audible rendition of ‘The S*n was right, you’re murderers’ after Liverpool scored,” says Stephen Carr. “This vile behaviour needs to be called out.” I missed that but if you’re right, it certainly does.
United actually played quite well for half an hour. But they’ve had only two shots and if I remember right both came from their right-back, Noussair Mazraoui. Matthijs de Ligt has been good on his full debut, but not good enough – and the first goal, like Brighton’s winner last weekend (also on De Ligt’s watch), came when United had somehow forgotten to put anyone on the far post.
“We must be in with a decent chance.” says Gary Naylor, “of hearing ‘Sacked in the morning’ this afternoon, sung to the beautiful melody of the fine rebel song, Guantanamera. Given that taking delight in the misfortunes of one’s rivals is a key aspect of fandom (do the Germans have a word for it?), is that the most harmless way to do so? Managers know they’re never that far from the door, most get a payoff that a Stretford End season ticket holder wouldn’t earn in a lifetime and some, like Vincent Kompany, fall upwards or get pretty good gigs at other clubs or in the media. Sure it’s mean-spirited, but you’ll let us have it won’t you?” Ha.
“I suspect that Slot might be given the benefit of the doubt by the Liverpool faithful,” says Stephen Berkery. “A slight change in tactics, and Gravenberch suddenly looks like a superstar… A change of manager sees a squad player become a prime mover.”
United’s predicament is meat and drink to Roy Keane. “Same old problems,” he says briskly. “Leopards and spots.”
There was too much happening in that half for me to open the mail, sorry. But here’s one from Mary Waltz. “Tim, greetings from California. Is Ten Hag under pressure already? Of course he is.
“Schizophrenic management puts every United manager close to the chopping block the day he signs his contract. All City players, whether they like it or not, know Pep runs the show and they better accept that. Ditto Liverpool under Klopp. Every MU player with a contract knows Ten Hag will eventually get tossed out the castle window.”
HALF-TIME! United 0-2 Liverpool
There’s just time for a Unite counter, but Van Dijk shoves Fernandes away and Anthony Taylor blows for half-time rather than a foul.
It’s been a story of one scenario, enacted twice. Two baffling Casemiro errors, two immaculate Salah crosses, two crisp Diaz finishes. And now Erik ten Hag has to work out whether to be as ruthless with Casemiro as he has been with Harry Maguire.
45+4 min Casemiro spots redemption as he tries to chip a through ball to Garnacho, but it’s too far ahead of him.
45+3 min Diaz, sniffing a perfect hat-trick, runs at Mazraoui, who sees him out for a goal kick.
45+2 min A third booking for United as Mainoo brings down Gravenberch. Silk on silk.
45+1 min A while ago a caption told us that Casemiro had given the ball away ten times in this match. And that was before the second goal.
45 min There will be another five minutes, which seems a bit 2023.
GOAL! United 0-2 Liverpool (Diaz 42)
There is the second! And again it comes from a Casemiro blunder. as he’s shrugged off the ball. Salah plays the creator again, and Diaz finishes with a neat pass into the corner.
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40 min Martinez clatters someone and goes into the book. “That’s just daft,” says Jamie Carragher.
39 min Half-chance for United! It’s that man Mazraoui again, hitting the ball better this time but straight at Alisson.
38 min “The United players look a little bit dejected,” says Neville. “Go and get your second goal now.”
37 min You can see why United have spent £42m on Manuel Ugarte.
The goal sprang from a shocker of a pass by Casemiro. Under no pressure.
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GOAL! Man United 0-1 Liverpool (Diaz 35)
There it is! A simple header at the far post from a delicious cross by Salah.
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33 min At the corner Virgil van Dijk was trying to get in André Onana’s way, in the style of Ben White. He’s too good for that.
32 min The corner, taken short, is a dud. United break and Mazraoui, of all people, has a shot, but he can’t get any power on it.
31 min Liverpool win a corner on the right. “They’ve got on top,” Gary Neville says, “the last seven or eight minutes.”
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30 min As the half-hour comes up, De Ligt wins his first big roar with a vital tackle. And then another. He looks like a no-fuss centre-back.
28 min After a couple more United giveaways, Casemiro does better with a through ball, a chip aimed at Rashford. Alisson comes out to head it away.
26 min There was a yellow card just now, for Zirkzee I think. A more likely candidate would have been Casemiro, who is struggling with the pace of the game.
25 min Alexander-Arnold finds Salah, his favourite target, with a glorious ball down the line. United tidy up but it would be no great surprise if they went behind.
23 min United live dangerously again as another Martinez pass goes astray.
22 min There’s another lull as Kobbie Mainoo goes down looking dazed and then goes off. The conference between Martinez and Casemiro expands to include De Ligt.
21 min Jurgen Klopp, watching on telly somewhere, will be smiling as Liverpool’s high press does the trick. Mo Salah gets the ball in the area but United manage to gang up on him.
20 min Liverpool have the edge on composure, reflecting their new manager’s air of calm. De Ligt has to tidy up as Diaz threatens down the left.
17 min Fired up by the crowd, Uited are scrapping better than they often do. Mazraoui and then Mainoo win a 50-50. Garnacho gets away down the right but his cutback is to nobody.
15 min Again, the head that gets to the ball in Liverpool’s area is the mighty one of Van Dijk.
14 min Zirksee gets a block in near the byline and wins a roar of approval. United come again and Rashford again wins a corner. He has justified Ten Hag’s faith so far.
13 min United regroup. Dalot fires in a cross from the left and Van Dijk heads it away for a throw.
10 min Liverpool are the better team now, playing some gorgeous passes. In United’s midfield only Kobbie Mainoo, serene as ever, seems able to cope. As Mac Allister recovers from a blow, Casemiro and Lisandro Martinez hold an inquest into the goal that wasn’t.
9 min The atmosphere was already rocking, now it’s boiling.
NO GOAL! Offside
Back to 0-0 … Salah was offisde as the cross came in before TAA thumped in the follow-up.
GOAL? Man United 0-1 Liverpool ((Alexander-Arnold)
An early blow for United’s new-look defence… but the VAR is looking at it.
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5 min Van Dijk picks the pocket of Zirkzee and plays in Jota, who has never lost against Man United. He shoots wide, for once.
4 min United come again with Fernandes striding into the inside-left zone. He goes right rather than left and gets in a tangle with Joshua Zirkzee, allowing Liverpool to break.
2 min Rashford again, combining beautifully with Diogo Dalot and winning a corner… which Liverpool soon clear.
1 min United have the early possesion. They get the ball rapidly to Rashford, but TAA shepherds him back.
The players are out there and the crowd are making a lot of noise. Liverpool go into a huddle as the two Dutch managers have a quick hug.
A quick word for any United fans in the house. Rob Smyth and I, for our sins, have a free Substack called United Writing, which takes a close look at United’s ups and downs. Rob contributes some wonderful long reads, set in the past, while I try to make sense of the present. Last weekend I argued that the defeat at Brighton meant Erik ten Hag was already under pressure. He may be about to make that line look very silly.
“That is indeed a pleasingly simple potential explanation for Antony’s travails,” says Matt Dony. “It does, however, say very little for Ten Hag. He knew the Eredivisie, he knows the Premier League, and he knows Antony. If it was that simple, you would like to think he could have worked it out?” Ha, yes, but he didn’t know the Premier League very well when he splashed out on Antony, two years ago today. Maybe he has worked it out now, and that’s one reason why Antony is third choice on the right wing behind Garnacho and Amad.
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“In terms of gamechangers,” says Rick Harris, “United do have Christian Eriksen, who has probably changed more games than Nunez, Gakpo, Elliott and Endo put together.” Ha, good point. With Mount injured and McTominay sold, he may now be Bruno Fernandes’s deputy as the No 10 – and he was sensational in that slot for Denmark against Slovenia at the Euros.
“A lot of chat about Liverpool’s contract situation,” says DDJ Stephens, “a lot about how Slot’s style is similar but more calm and patient... all good, but why is nobody talking about Nunez not getting any game time under Slot yet, despite his professed desire to make him the big nine for Liverpool?” I think he did come on for the last 20 minutes or so against Brentford, but point taken.
Newcastle held on to beat Spurs 2-1, while Chelsea could only draw 1-1 at home to Palace. Newcastle go fourth for now, behind Arsenal and Brighton on goal difference, but Liverpool need only a draw to leapfrog them. If Liverpool win, they will join Man City as the only clubs with a 100pc record after three games. Chelsea, for all their goals at Molineux, are 11th, two places and one point above Man United, who, if they win, will soar to seventh.
“You’re right about the lack of potential game-changers on United’s bench,” says Jon Collins, “but it really is an indictment of their transfer policy, and his performances in a United shirt, that Antony – a £86m winger – is neither a starter nor a useful substitute. Presumably he has little or no resale value, so are they stuck with him till his contract runs out?”
There will surely come a moment when he’s desperate for game time. A piece in the Sunday Times today posits a simple explanation for his struggles: in the Eredivisie, teams don’t double up on wingers, so at Ajax Antony often found himself one-v-one and able to cut inside and score. In the Premier League they do double up, so they can block off that avenue, and his lack of a strong right foot makes it hard for him to go round the outside.
In today’s other big game, Newcastle have just gone ahead against the run of play for the second time. Do join Taha Hashim for the final act of that drama.
The first email of the day comes in from Rick Harris. “Dutch managers of English PL clubs may not have lifted the title,” he says, “but they have won the FA Cup – Gullitt and Hiddink with Chelsea. Van Gaal and Ten Hag with United.” Very true. I wonder if that’s partly because they remembered watching the Cup final n the Netherlands when they were younger. Before this year’s final Erik ten Hag talked about that and the impression it made on him.
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Teams in full
United’s bench is a curious one, with two goalkeepers and no full-backs. The only sub of theirs with the air of a game-changer is Amad, whereas Liverpool have some serious firepower in Darwin Nunez and Cody Gakpo.
Man United (possible 4-2-4-0) Onana; Mazraoui, De Ligt, Martinez, Dalot; Casemiro, Mainoo; Garnacho, Fernandes, Zirkzee, Rashford.
Subs: Bayindir, Heaton, Maguire, Evans, Collyer, Eriksen, Amad, Antony, Wheatley.
Liverpool (probable 4-2-1-3) Alisson; Alexander-Arnold, Konate, Van Dijk, Robertson; Gravenberch, Mac Allister; Szoboszlai; Salah, Jota, Diaz.
Subs: Kelleher, Bradley, Quansah, Gomez, Tsimikas, Endo, Elliott, Nunez, Gakpo.
Referee Anthony Taylor.
Teams in brief: Liverpool unchanged
After a serene August, Arne Slot sticks with a winning team in September. Even the bench is the same as it was against Brentford – no sign of Federico Chiesa yet.
Teams in brief: Maguire dropped!
As expected, Erik ten Hag bring Joshua Zirkzee in to replace Mason Mount. As not so expected, he replaces Harry Maguire with Matthijs de Ligt. When he did that last weekend with a substitution, United were suddenly disorganised. And there’s a third change as Alejandro Garnacho comes in on the right wing for Amad, who ejected Liverpool from the FA Cup with his last-gasp winner.
Preamble
Afternoon everyone and welcome to the biggest game of the weekend. Man United v Liverpool is a rancorous old rivalry that, even in the age of Man City, still pits the club with the most league titles (United, 20) against the one with the next-most (Liverpool, 19). The Old Trafford crowd may just find a way of mentioning that.
Today’s game will be just like many a meeting between the two sides and, in one way, quite different. It appears to be the first big-six meeting ever involving a Dutch manager on either side. You wait decades for a big English clash between two Dutch managers and then find that actually there are four of them, as Erik ten Hag now has two more as his right-hand men – Ruud van Nistelrooy, who has managed PSV Eindhoven, and Rene Hake, who, like Ten Hag, has managed Go Ahead Eagles.
When they shake hands, Ten Hag and Arne Slot will look interchangeable with their shaven heads and friendly faces, but as Premier League managers they are already chalk and Dutch cheese. Slot has instantly established himself as a reluctant shopper and a considered strategist with a clear style. Without exactly renouncing Klopp-ball, he has added a twist of patience and gained more control.
The upshot, in his first two Premier League games, has been a pair of 2-0 wins. That’s as many as United managed in the whole of last season. It’s not just the results that bother United fans: as Ten Hag hangs on for a third autumn in Manchester, it’s still hard to say what his style is.
While Liverpool invested in just one player over the summer (Federico Chiesa, for £10m, a third of his market value according to Transfermarkt), Ten Hag and his new colleagues bought five for about 18 times that. The latest recruit is Manuel Ugarte – yes, Man U have brought in a man called Man U – but he wasn’t registered in time to play today. The only attacker among the five, Joshua Zirkzee, may get a first start as Mason Mount is injured again and Scott McTominay, to the disappointment of many supporters, is no longer there.
No Dutch manager has ever won the Premier League, or even come second. For all his success in the domestic cups, it’s hard to picture Ten Hag changing that. Slot has a more realistic chance, though he may have to wait until Pep Guardiola gets bored of giving us his thoughts on hat-tricks from Erling Haaland.
United overperformed against Liverpool last season, somehow contriving to win once and draw twice while going out of their way to concede as many shots as possible. Today feels as if it might just be payback time. But it’s a derby, so anything could happen, or nothing.
