As we chat, Deborah Oliver is explaining how her dogs Lola and Angel were dressed in coats and crowns when King Charles visited Llandaff in Cardiff last year. In between keeping the pair under control long enough for our photographer to take a picture, she couldn't be happier talking about living on a street many don't even know exists.
"We've got lots of Americans that come and do a little tour of Llandaff. They end up coming down this private row and find it beautiful," she said. "It's so peaceful."
Business owner Deborah, 59, is talking about Spencer's Row. Tucked away behind an old stone arch on Bridge Street in the city, it's a place locals know about but which goes unnoticed by many passers-by.