A feud between tech titans, each famous and rich and full of earned hubris bordering on delusion, elevated toward absurdity in recent weeks. Yes, Mark Zuckerberg announced that Meta would start a Twitter rival called Threads. And, yes, Twitter owner Elon Musk—apparently aware of Zuckerberg’s amateur foray into mixed martial arts—tweeted “I’m up for a cage match if he is lol.” And, naturally, Zuckerberg took to Instagram, part of the Meta family, to fire back, via the catchphrase of a UFC icon. Send me the location.
Whether this marks the world’s dumbest or most fascinating feud no longer matters, because the fight between tech titans turned billionaire peacocks appears more probable than not. UFC czar Dana White told The New York Times that when he spoke with both men and their advisors, both camps appeared serious in making a non-serious event and a broad outline for the “event” was starting to come together.
But verbal spats and free advertising do not make for compelling combat, necessarily. That’s why two trainers at Wild Card Boxing club in Los Angeles saw the news and didn’t react like most of America (with incredulous laughter).
No, Freddie Roach, the gym’s founder, has trained all manner of “fighters,” from more than 50 world champions in boxing to MMA stars, kickboxers, firemen, policemen, Hollywood types and even a famous lawyer who still likes, at age 80, to challenge pros to sparring sessions. One of Roach’s assistants, Dicky Eklund Jr., son of The Fighter himself, saw the billionaire cage match along the same lines. Anyone can fight, as we’ve seen more and more in boxing recently, with celebrity combatants, over-and-down-the-hill champions, athletes from other sports and all the rest. The question that lingers, always, but especially now, is: how well?
“I would definitely say it’s the most bizarre of all those,” Eklund said over the phone from Wild Card earlier this week. “But it’s 2023, so nothing surprises me anymore.”
Well said. The interest does start with the time period. With social media and its reach, so much tomfoolery is available on demand. The notoriety and staggering wealth of both participants elevates the magnitude, as does their shared space and modest bickering in recent years. Plus, who wouldn’t want to see either Zuck or Musk get battered and bludgeoned inside a cage? The hardest part of their “match-up” is figuring out if either is worth rooting for.
The boxing lifers, though, were interested in something else. Of all the novelty bouts, in all manner of combat sports, never before have two participants possessed unlimited money and resources (some $350 billion between them) contrasted with so little actual in-cage experience. Both can decide to train with whomever they want, however they choose, often or rarely, seriously or not.
Roach and Eklund are here to help. They understand what it takes to elevate a fighter beyond their current capabilities, whatever the starting point. There’s a starting point that must be found there and a balance, too. There’s too little training, too much training and the wrong kinds of training to guard against. There’s drive, evident in both men, that must be utilized and controlled at the same time. It’s hard for either trainer to find an easy comparison in boxing, a sport defined by hardscrabble lives and obstacles surmounted. Maybe Shane Mosley Jr., namesake of the famous world champion and owner of a 20-4 record, approaches the same neighborhood of resource-rich training. But the Mosleys are actual boxers, not billionaires, rich in experience and pursuit of craft instead.
Roach believes Zuck and Musk should ignore most of the chatter on their social channels. He saw the picture that’s circulating online of Zuckerberg with pecs that appear carved from stone and abs that should have their own Threads feed, something like Zuck’s Six Pack. Doesn’t necessarily matter, Roach said. “Some people will say, yeah, he’s pretty strong,” Roach said. “But a real fighter will say, I’m gonna kick his f—king ass.”
As the trainers see it, a handful of factors matter more than all the rest, even those Adonis-like abs, combined. The first is experience. Both have some, although the depth of mastery or even competence, for both, remains unclear. The second is age (advantage Zuck, who, at 39, is 13 years younger than Musk). The third is size (advantage Musk, who is taller and heavier and owns a far longer reach).
The trainers also have questions. What will the catch-weight be for the event, given a weight difference in the neighborhood of 30-40 pounds? If the disparity is too large, would an athletic commission, in, say, the UFC’s home state of Nevada, even sanction an “exhibition?”
Viewing Zuckerberg from afar, they see a physical fit titan who dabbles in MMA and has performed jumping jacks and what not while wearing a weighted vest. Threads has collected 100 million users; shirtless pics with UFC champions, taken. But Zuckerberg also has a newborn daughter and a new business to run alongside his other businesses. Will he have time to thoroughly prepare? Or, with the age gap, will he even need it?
“Freddie’s the best offensive boxing trainer of all-time,” Eklund said. “The key to winning with a size disadvantage is to use the MMA and jiu-jitsu background and get him to the ground.”
Musk told the Joe Rogan Podcast he trained in several martial arts (judo, karate, taekwondo) throughout his childhood and more recently dabbled in jujitsu. So he has some familiarity. Like Zuck, he’s brilliant and sensitive. Unlike Zuck, he’s over 50. Roach would advise Musk to fight standing up, avoiding all grappling and utilizing his significant size/reach/force advantage.
“He’s got to stay standing in this thing and use his power,” Eklund says. “If you’ve got 30 pounds and five inches on someone, walk them down and lay it on them.”
One lingering issue could be what kind of shape Musk is in. Zuck’s fitness seems enviable already, like he bought those abs with Meta stock options. Musk’s body seems to be shaped, the trainers say, more like a pear. If he’s not fit, or even fit enough, Musk, they estimate, would need at least six weeks but ideally closer to eight before he can begin real combat training.
They’d start with simple cardio. Boxing as a sport is far more aerobic than most know. Just ask Conor McGregor, a muscled monster in the UFC who gassed out in an exhibition bout with Floyd Mayweather. It ain’t easy.
Roach, as an amateur and professional boxer, ran every day of his life. He’d start Musk with one-mile jogs and build to three-mile jaunts. He’d tell Musk to invite friends, because “no one likes running by themselves.” No SpaceX here. Just good, old-fashioned feet on pavement, pounding away, day after day. Roach would then have Musk run on a track, on the beach, on inclines like hills or sand dunes. Once legitimate training started, Musk would run three times a week and focus on MMA fundamentals and strategy otherwise. In an ideal world, they’d have six months to shape Musk into the best fighter he can possibly be. “There’s no cutting corners,” Roach said. “But I guarantee he would learn, and he would improve. If you do all that, you have to.”
His workload and immense life responsibilities wouldn’t be an issue, they say, applying the same sentiment to Zuckerberg. After all, Roach guided Manny Pacquiao through two decades of greatness, while accounting for the champion’s political ambitions, sizeable entourage and general chaos throughout.
Roach also doesn’t buy the notion that this combat event will automatically be terrible. Back in the day, he held white collar boxing events at Wild Card, serving as both the matchmaker and the referee. One time it was police department vs. fire department. Another time, one executive approached Roach before his bout.
“You ready?” Roach asked.
The man stammered and mumbled until the answer was clear. He was not.
“What do you mean?” Roach asked. “You worked out for a long time.”
“You’re right,” the man responded. “But my wife and kids are here, and I gotta go home now.”
The man left, never to be seen at Wild Card again. His decision underscored the risks that professional fighters beckon or at least endure. Like that infamous Mike Tyson quote – everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth.
Ideally, the tech titan martial artists would have enough time to get in shape and train. The training would be split up throughout the week, just like Roach did in his time training St. Pierre. In one hypothetical scenario, Musk would work on boxing/striking techniques on Mondays (Roach drastically improved St. Pierre in this area), wrestling/ground maneuvers on Tuesdays, jujitsu on Wednesdays and some combination of those, road work and Muay Thai the rest of the week. Saturday would mean uphill cardio, because, on Sunday, he would rest.
In some ways, a blank fighter canvas could be helpful. The less-experienced fighter wouldn’t have to break entrenched bad habits. Both have already enlisted UFC champions and renowned MMA coaches. But Roach and Eklund are willing to help, too.
Asked who they want to win, Roach said, “Whoever’s corner we’re in.”
It’s not certain that there will be corners. There’s no set date or location – yet. South Africa, Musk’s home country, already declined to host. Las Vegas would require commission approval and a date amongst a crowded slate of actual bouts and other exhibitions. But, hey, at least these combatants wouldn’t have to avoid states that boxing champions typically don’t fight in because the taxes on their purses are too high. Musk, with his typical subtlety, recently suggested the Roman Colosseum.
According to The Times, Zuckerberg’s advisors fully support his peacocking, while Musk’s are already floating that his time would be better spent elsewhere. If that’s how the bout dissolves, it will become more like boxing than MMA.
“May the best man win,” Eklund says.
The conversation with the trainers devolves from there. Roach jokes that he could teach Musk to cut off the ring in ways he never could with Oscar De La Hoya. The famous lawyer he trains, one Robert Shapiro, would definitely fight either of the tech mavens, with America on his side.
Shortly after the interview concludes, ace boxing publicist Fred Sternburg sends over a classic line that came up afterward.
Zuckerberg never Meta fighter that was trained by Freddie and Dickie!
So, yeah, why not? Perhaps that’s the winning ticket. Elon and Freddie, 2024.
