Former Liberal minister for Indigenous Australians Ken Wyatt has called on Opposition Leader Peter Dutton to hold a conscience vote among the Liberal party on the Indigenous Voice to Parliament.
He says Mr Dutton could be on the wrong side of history when it comes to voting for an Indigenous Voice to Parliament.
Mr Wyatt's comments come after the Yes campaign officially launched in Adelaide last week, and the No campaign ramps up its efforts in Western Australia.
While debate continues around the wording of the Voice referendum, and with the working group due to meet again soon – where do the Yes and No campaigns stand?
Yes campaign figure Mr Wyatt and senior No campaign leader Warren Mundine appeared on The Drum to explain the state of play.
The Yes campaign: local, Indigenous voices will be bedrock
The Yes campaign is in full swing after a launch last week in Adelaide.
Mr Wyatt said it was still "early days".
"People don't know the details and that's what they're asking for – detail," he told The Drum.
"For a constitutional referendum to succeed, we need to have a rigorous discussion.
"My focus, when I was minister, was having local voices heard, because at a community level that's where the greatest disadvantage is.
"What I want to see is the strength of the local voice being the foundational bedrock, then the regional voice, then the Voice to Parliament."
Mr Wyatt previously pushed for the Voice referendum to be held after 2023.
"I was not in a hurry to have a national voice, I was prepared to wait 18 months," he said.
But he was optimistic and believed the Yes campaign would be successful this year.
He said people he has met on the Yes campaign trail told him they want to see change for Indigenous Australians.
"The Voice will not improve the closing the gap measures – it's one instrument only," Mr Wyatt said.
"State and territory governments have to be responsible for the changes on the ground because they deliver programs and services that directly impact on Aboriginal communities.
"So it's going to take a combination of approaches."
The Voice, Mr Wyatt said, was about giving Aboriginal people a say.
"We've had committees come and go at a rate of knots – it's like the seaweed that floats in on a wave, hits the beach, and floats away again."
The No campaign: the Voice is no panacea
Former ALP president-turned-Liberal candidate Warren Mundine is spearheading the No campaign as the president of Recognise a Better Way.
Central to his campaign is recognition of "prior occupation of Aboriginal people in a preamble to the constitution" – but it does not support an Indigenous Voice to Parliament.
"I have not been convinced by one person that [the Voice] is the panacea that's going to do everything."
Mr Mundine has been in Western Australia in recent weeks ramping up support for the No campaign.
"We're just doing a community campaign, we don't have the multi millions of dollars that the Yes campaign has, or corporations around this country supporting us," he said.
The campaign is supported by 37,000 volunteers.
"This thing about Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people not having a voice is beyond me," Mr Mundine told The Drum.
"There have always been voices to parliament."
Mr Mundine himself was a member of the National Indigenous Council under John Howard, and chair of the Prime Minister's Indigenous Advisory Council under Tony Abbott and Malcolm Turnbull.
"We're going to spend a lot of money on this, and we're going to end up having this huge bureaucracy operating, and it's not going to make one iota of difference for people on the ground," he said.
"The biggest 'closing the gap' is not between Indigenous and non-Indigenous, it's between Indigenous in the cities and Indigenous in the regions.
"These things are not going to be resolved by people sitting around parliament."
Splinter No campaigns
Country Liberal Party senator Jacinta Nampijinpa Price – who launched Recognise a Better Way with Mr Mundine – has quit his No campaign to launch her own.
Senator Price is leading the Fair Australia No campaign, which is funded by Advance Australia – a conservative group.
She said the two campaigns would work together.
Mr Mundine and Senator Price will go on a tour of the country for their No campaign, hold barbecues, and talk to Aboriginal communities.
A third No campaign is led by Independent senator Lidia Thorpe.
"There is a progressive no, and the platform needs to be given to those people," Senator Thorpe said on RN Breakfast last week.
"If you go around this country, and allow people to speak freely, you will hear their demands – and that is tied up in a treaty, not in a voice that has no power."
Mr Mundine acknowledged that both sides hold a diversity of perspectives.
"I've hardened in the last couple of years," he said about his own position on the Voice.
But he worried about the potential of a referendum driving division.
"This is one of my major concerns – what is going to happen? Are we going to have fights in the polling booths?"
Where will Dutton and the Liberal Party land?
The Liberals have not announced a position on the Voice yet, although their Coalition partners – the Nationals – are firmly planted in the No camp.
As a recent Liberal minister, Mr Wyatt has advised Opposition Leader Peter Dutton and the Liberals on the Voice.
"I would want him to give his colleagues a free vote, a conscience vote," he said.
"There are some individuals within the Coalition who support the Voice."
Mr Mundine said the opposition was doing a great job.
"[Mr Dutton's] asking the questions that people are asking on the ground," he said.
"If you're going to make a serious change to our Constitution, which is the basic law of this country, it's got to be well presented – if it doesn't do that, it shouldn't happen."
Should the Voice advise executive government?
One of the sticking points in the Voice debate is whether it should advise executive government.
On Tuesday, Attorney-General Mark Dreyfus appeared on RN Breakfast and said: "I'm convinced that the Voice will be effective if, as a constitutional requirement, it is able to make representations to the parliament and to the executive."
But on Wednesday, Prime Minister Anthony Albanese qualified his position.
"We'll work through those issues with the referendum working group," he told Patricia Karvelas on RN Breakfast.
"I've also said that I'm not dogmatic about this.
"I want to secure as much support as possible."
Mr Wyatt said there was a complexity of issues within Indigenous affairs, and he wanted everyone to keep an open mind.
"We accept every other type of national body," he said.
"Even local government has three tiers and governments are influenced by them.
"But we don't listen to Aboriginal people on the same level."
Mr Wyatt said young Australians want adults to "stop bickering about this and let's look at a fair go, and a fair voice."
