SAN DIEGO — Karl Denson has learned some valuable lessons about longevity in his 25 years as a band leader and his nine years as a touring saxophonist in the Rolling Stones, whose lead singer, Mick Jagger, is 13 years older than Denson.
"Mick has what I'm going to get, a personal trainer, which is awesome," said Denson, 66, who is celebrating the 25th anniversary of his band, Karl Denson's Tiny Universe.
"Mick has his personal trainer year-round," he noted, "which is what I want."
And why does this muscular multi-instrumentalist and singer — who has been an avid tai chi practitioner since he was 19 — need a personal trainer? Or, rather, a periodic personal trainer, not a year-round one, which is beyond Denson's budget?
"To get me going every day when I'm on tour!" he replied with a laugh. "And to tell me why this part of me or that part is hurting. I'm getting older and things are starting to hurt now."
Older, maybe. Less active, not at all.
A Santa Ana native and Encinitas resident, Denson has been busier than ever.
Last spring, he did his most recent reunion tour with the Greyboy Allstars, the San Diego funk-jazz band that was formed in 1993. Last July and August, Denson did a stadium tour of Europe with the Rolling Stones that concluded Aug. 3 in Berlin. On Aug. 11, he and Tiny Universe performed in New York to kick off a U.S. tour.
It was followed by fall and winter dates with Tiny Universe, which Denson founded in 1998 and has led through various iterations ever since.
January saw the band perform two dates in New Orleans, followed by shows in California, Oregon and Washington. On Feb. 4, the group embarked on its 19th annual Jam Cruise, a weeklong floating music festival that traverses the Caribbean.
"If not for COVID, this would be our 20th or 21st Jam Cruise," noted Denson, who will also teach a few tai chi classes on board.
'My own experience'
What inspired Denson to branch out from the Greyboy Allstars and launch his own band a quarter-century ago?
"What led to Tiny Universe was really my desire to be a vocalist," he replied, speaking from his Encinitas home.
"I wanted to create my own experience of what I was striving for, artistically. Being able to write my own lyrics and create my own space is what I was trying to do. I didn't think about how long Tiny Universe would last; I just thought about wanting to get better."
Thanks to its propulsive grooves and dancer-friendly command of funk and rock, Tiny Universe quickly became a staple on the national jam-band scene. But there is a key element that distinguishes Denson and his group from other jam-scene mainstays.
"What I look for in my band mates is musical curiosity in a jazz setting," Denson said.
"Because the one thing that holds this band together is that we play solos. Most (jam) bands that have singing don't solo. And even a lot of those bands without singing don't solo; they just play grooves now. I felt that needed to be addressed, so I looked for really strong jazz players for Tiny Universe.
"I think dance is my common denominator in all my bands. I think of myself as a jazz musician and also like to consider myself a dance-band musician. Because one of the roots of jazz is that it used to be dance music."
Denson's six-piece Tiny Universe now features a new rhythm section in bassist Parker McAllister and drummer Alfred Jordan (who is not related to new Rolling Stones drummer Steve Jordan).
"Parker and Alfred give the band a whole new dynamic," said Denson, who next Thursday opens a four-night run at New York's famed Blue Note jazz club.
His Big Apple gig won't be with Tiny Universe, however. Instead, it will be the debut of the Karl Denson Project, which teams him with such heavy hitters as Pat Metheny Side-Eye keyboardist James Francies and trumpeter Keyon Harrold, who performed Miles Davis' trumpet parts in the 2015 Don Cheadle film "Miles Ahead."
"This is a new thing I'm doing — and hope to do a lot more of — as I am kind of getting back to my roots as a jazz player," said Denson, whose 1994 album, "Chunky Pecan Pie," teamed him with famed former Miles Davis band members Dave Holland and Jack DeJohnette.
Rolling with the Stones
"I feel like my writing, my ideas of what I wanted to do with my career, are coming full circle with the Karl Denson Project," he said.
"I feel like something has caught up with me. When I was playing straight-ahead jazz back in the early 1990s, the audience didn't want to hear original compositions; they wanted to hear (Duke Ellington's) 'Satin Doll' every night.
"A lot of my music has become more relevant now than it was back then. I'll pay tribute to the traditions of jazz, but in my own way. I won't be playing 'Satin Doll'!"
Denson first gained national attention touring and recording as a member of Lenny Kravitz's band from 1989 to 1992. (That's him playing the tenor sax solo on Kravitz's breakthrough hit, "Let Love Rule.") It was Kravitz who recommended Denson to Mick Jagger when the Rolling Stones needed to replace longtime Stones saxophonist Bobby Keys in 2014.
"Mick is more of a blues guy; the other guys in the Stones really like jazz," Denson said.
Not coincidentally, longtime Stones bassist Darryl Jones is a former Miles Davis band member. And drummer Steve Jordan, who replaced the late Charlie Watts in 2021, previously played with such jazz sax greats as Sonny Rollins, David Sanborn and Sonny Fortune. (Rollins, in fact, is the guest soloist on the Stones' 1981 recording of the song "Waiting On a Friend.")
Denson laughed as he recalled his first performance with the Stones, which took place in a stadium in Australia, on Oct. 25, 2014. During his solo on "Brown Sugar," he mistook a musical cue signaling the song's imminent conclusion as an invitation to continue soloing. So he did.
"That resulted in my first and only trip to the 'principal's office'," Denson said, laughing again.
And who is the 'principal' in the Rolling Stones?
"Mick is!" replied Denson, who acknowledges he himself has been the "principal" in Tiny Universe for the past 25 years.
Who is the more stern "principal," him or Jagger?
"Oh, Mick, by far!" Denson said. "He's much more stern than I am in his approach. And his approach is much more all-business. I tend to be a little soft.
"Seeing Mick and the other Stones, who all work at such a high level, is always good for you. I see how hard they work and how much they put into it.
"I was familiar with Bobby Keys' playing with the Stones, but I had to learn the catalog of their music when I came on board. And what I learned is just how great and vast their catalog is. I wish I could talk them into doing more songs, because they have so many great songs that they don't do (in concert). I love 'Play with Fire' and 'Loving Cup,' which they only do once in a blue moon."
Denson is not at liberty to divulge much about the Stones' upcoming plans, but he allowed that there is a "good possibility" the band will tour later this year.
Will he perform on the Stones' much-anticipated upcoming album, which has been at least several years in the making?
"Most likely not," Denson replied.
Earlier this month, he recorded six songs for a new album with the Greyboy Allstars. The band's keyboardist, Robert Walter, last year became a member of former Pink Floyd mainstay Roger Waters' touring band.
The next Tiny Universe album, "No Accent," might be ready for release by fall. Inspired by the late Afrobeat pioneer Fela Kuti, it's entitled "No Accent." In the interim, the Karl Denson Project is just getting ready for takeoff. All signs are that his musical universe will continue to expand.
"As far as playing music goes, I don't see any end in sight in the near future," Denson said.
"Charlie Gabriel, the saxophonist in the Preservation Hall Jazz Band in New Orleans, is 90 now. I'm not sure if my genes will hold up that long! So, we'll see."
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