Judy Craymer does a top-notch impression of Björn Ulvaeus and Benny Andersson. Its chief merit is that it is a combination of both Abba stars. Craymer is telling how, each time she and her two business partners consider a new project, they’re initially wary. “Bjorn and Benny are like ‘I dunno, a third film, really?’” she says, deepening her voice and adding a Swedish lilt. “Our partnership has always been an element of their caution and my optimism.”
It is 25 years this weekend since the curtain went up on Mamma Mia!, the West End musical based on Abba. It has since toured the world and spawned two hit films.
Behind its success is Craymer’s Littlestar Services, co-founded with Andersson and Ulvaeus and based in St James’ Place. The offices sit well away from theatreland, at the suits-and-royals edge of the West End.
Her office is stuffed with memorabilia that would thrill Abba fanatics, from branded mini-trucks and bespoke ouzo to the hard hat bearing the words “Jude, do not touch” that she wore on the film set. A huge wooden “Hotel Bella Donna” sits behind her ample desk, along with a striking collection of Mary McCartney portraits of her. The basement is crammed with costumes.
“I’m anti the term ‘jukebox musical’,” she says. “That’s used as an excuse to put songs on a biopic. Mamma Mia! was made to feel like the Abba songs were originally written for the show.”
Set on a Greek island, it tells the story of a bride-to-be who wants to know which of her mother’s three former boyfriends is her father. The theatre show has made more than £4.5bn at the box office, from 50 productions in 450 cities and 16 languages, seen by 70 million people.
The two films starred high-flyers including Meryl Streep, Cher and Pierce Brosnan. From tourism to merchandise, the phenomenon is estimated to have been worth more than £1.9bn in London and £11.5bn worldwide. The band, meanwhile, are celebrating the 50th anniversary of their first Eurovision victory.
But as well as pop harmonies, colourful outfits and camp frolics, a serious, steady cash machine provides the engine for growth, and Craymer, Andersson and Ulvaeus have raked in the money (money, money). In the past decade alone, they have shared more than £60m in royalties and more than £5m in dividends from Littlestar.
How does Craymer feel when the musical is described as a cash cow? “I just get annoyed, really,” she sighs. “When you plan for theatre, you do not think anything more than maybe you’ll recoup and have a successful run. You really don’t go in like a tech business where you think, ‘In three years’ time we’ll be millionaires and go on to be billionaires.’
“The mega-musicals shouldn’t be taken for granted. People go, ‘Oh they’re on a long time,’ or ‘They’re just on for people to make money.’ Actually, that kind of soft power has a massive ripple effect on the cities they’re in.”
Craymer, wearing her trademark cluster of oversized rings, has plenty of the glamour of her industry, but a very matter-of-fact manner (no air kisses in sight). She’s one of a West End holy trinity, along with Cameron Mackintosh (Les Miserables) and Andrew Lloyd Webber (Phantom of the Opera) of people who have had a musical running for over 25 years. She says she progressed “in the shadows” of both.
Growing up in north London, Craymer spent her holidays grooming horses and, when she defied her solicitor father’s initial hope that she study law and opted instead for stage management, he urged her on, but said the price would be to sell her horse, Tarquin.
Early jobs at the Old Vic and on Cats with Mackintosh followed, before Chess, the Andersson and Ulvaeus musical created with Tim Rice in the 1980s. Inspired by Rice, she later presented the idea for Mamma Mia! to the (typically cautious) pair as a joint venture.
It took 10 years to get it to the West End, and the early years of Mamma Mia! were not smooth. Weeks after opening night in 1999, London was hit by three nailbomb attacks, and tragedy struck again as 9/11 upended preparations for its Broadway debut. She recalls that New York mayor Rudy Giuliani was keen that Broadway get back up and running: “There was an incredible community of people trying to pull together.”
More recently, the pandemic shut down theatres the world over. “We had no idea it was going to be so long. Theatre is about putting on a show every night: closing wasn’t heard of, even during the war.”
Littlestar and a sister company received £50,000 each in 2021 to furlough its production staff, which caused controversy given its deep- pocketed Abba co-founders. The money has not been returned.
“I don’t see why they should pick up the bill,” Craymer says, defiantly. “They’re incredibly wealthy from their songwriting. I look at Abba’s songs as a gift to the world. They are very humble and low key. They are rights owners; they don’t run the business. Nobody took dividends during that time. We could have closed and never come back.”
The show did, of course, come back, and last year Craymer took it into the realms of reality television, using an ITV show to select its next pair of West End leads. A US version of the format has been mooted, but lining it up with a stage production could prove tricky.
“I felt very protective of that music – I still do. That’s really the point of Littlestar. They know I don’t do anything they wouldn’t like, and always run things past them,” says Craymer.
Clearly unfazed by working with stars, she is creating a Cher biopic, after the two women hit it off on the Mamma Mia! set. “She’s an inspiration really – always stayed relevant, always resurrected.” Craymer’s stint as chair of Universal Music Group saw the 2021 blockbuster float of the world’s largest record company.
Not everything is a hit though: her 2012 Spice Girls musical Viva Forever! ran for less than seven months after suffering a critical savaging and leaving her “heartbroken”.
Meanwhile, Abba Voyage – the retro-futuristic avatar show – has been drawing gleeful audiences to east London since 2022. Craymer has no connection with that venture, but she’s not concerned about fans deserting Mamma Mia!
“It’s interesting – in the years I worked with them, people were like, ‘Abba will never do anything again’ so the circle is closing and [now] they’re promoting new technology and new music, which will be in the new film.” If they let her make it.
“Benny’s like [lowers voice again], “Oh, no one knows.” Don’t bet against them taking (another) chance on her.
CV
Age 66
Family “None. The work was always way more exciting than the boyfriends really”
Education Mount School Mill Hill; Guildhall School of Music and Drama.
Pay No salary. Has received millions in dividends and royalty payments.
Last holiday “Don’t do any. There’s always something happening. Work takes me to some nice places”
Best advice she’s been given “My dad would be laughing at all the challenges I’ve had, being a non-lawyer girl: life is contracts, negotiations, personalities, finance, tax”
Biggest career mistake “There’s been so many I couldn’t possibly talk about them”
Phrase she overuses “Don’t overthink it”
How she relaxes With her seven horses in Warwickshire
