State witness Jonathan Dowdall repeatedly told gardai that Gerry Hutch wouldn't be "stupid" enough to confess to him.
Yet speaking before the Special Criminal Court, Dowdall claimed that a desperate Hutch - who he admits he wasn't close friends with, did confess to him because he "missed Daniel Kinahan and killed another person."
Dowdall made the claim that “things went horribly wrong” for Hutch and that’s why he confided in him in a park days after the Regency Hotel attack and told him he’d shot Byrne.
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“He went in to plan to kill Daniel Kinahan. He missed Daniel Kinahan and he killed another person.
“People were calling to homes, so that’s probably why he told me,” Dowdall told Defence Counsel Brendan Grehan SC on the fourth day of his cross-examination before the Special Criminal Court.
Hutch (59), who has pleaded not guilty to the murder of Mr Byrne at Dublin’s Regency Hotel on February 5, 2016, watched intently as a video recording of Dowdall being interviewed by gardai in May of 2016 was played before the court on Thursday.
However throughout that recording the court heard Dowdall repeatedly insisting to gardai that Gerry Hutch would never tell him about the Regency Hotel murder.
“I don’t think the man is stupid enough to tell me.”
“Let’s be honest,” he told gardai.
During his lengthy exchange with gardai Dowdall said that Gerard Hutch would call to his home two or three times in relation to fundraisers for Sinn Fein.
He said that “none of the politicians would say that,” before mentioning the name “Mary Lou.”
At that point in time Dowdall told gardai that he did not believe Gerry Hutch to be a “bad man” and said that he respected him.
“I respect Gerard,” he said, claiming that if anyone in the community had a problem where someone was “pressing” upon them that they could go for him to help.
He told officers that in his meetings with Hutch they discussed the newspapers and the fundraising - but never the Regency.
He frequently told gardai in the interview that Hutch “never told me about it (the Regency).”
“Sure why would he? I’m not a criminal,” he said at one point.
At another point Dowdall told gardai “there was no conversation or discussion with me to do with the Regency.
“I wouldn’t say come here Gerard, did you do the Regency?”
In cross-examining Mr Dowdall about what he says in this garda interview, Mr Grehan put it to the witness that he was lying to gardai.
Dowdall was vehement in his response in that he said he wasn’t lying.
“In some aspects I’m not telling the truth. But I’m not telling lies,” Dowdall said.
Several times during the day Mr Grehan put it to Dowdall that he was lying and probed him as to why he told gardai one thing, but now he was claiming that the accused had in fact by that stage confessed to the murder to him.
But Dowdall claimed he couldn’t tell gardai the truth back then because he feared that his “family would have been killed if I said I knew who was in the Regency.”
Taking a break from the video Mr Grehan asked Jonathan Dowdall about his suggestion that Gerry Hutch “has some connection to drugs.”
Dowdall responded by saying that a garda had been “caught with a load of drugs belonging to the Hutches.”
Mr Grehan then interjected and asked the witness if there was “any dirt that you don’t care to throw at Gerry Hutch.”
It was at this point that Dowdall appeared to become quite annoyed and rebutted that Hutch was the one throwing dirt at him.
“Is there any dirt that your client is not willing to throw at me…putting photos of my mother and my daughter on Twitter,” he alleged.
Later in the exchange Dowdall would again make reference to this alleged Twitter account which he said posted serious allegations about him and claimed he was the organiser of the Regency Hotel attack.
The account he said alleged that he was paid a sum of €250,000 and organised the firearms and the Regency incident.
Dowdall said that as a result of this Twitter account’s claims he became concerned for his and his family’s welfare - and he says he made a member of the Garda Special Detective Unit (SDU) aware.
He said he feared what would happen, and claimed “If I was Liam Byrne and I seen that Twitter account, it’s only obvious that they’re gonna want me dead.”
Liam Byrne is a brother of murder victim David Byrne - and is considered to be a senior member of the Kinahan cartel.
In his interview with gardai Dowdall had choice words for the Kinahan cartel - labeling them “scumbags,” and claiming “I’d say it to their face.”
He even at one stage blasted some of the Hutches to gardai - saying some of them are “dirt” - name dropping Alan Hutch - a son of slain Eddie Hutch as an example.
Dowdall later further complained that a van registered to his name was parked at Buckingham Village - the alleged meet-up spot of the Regency hit team, that he was made to book a room in the hotel without knowing who would be in it - and that a Twitter account named him as responsible for the attack.
He claimed that someone obviously “had an agenda” - and alleged that this was the Hutches.
As the tape went on, Dowdall appeared to become increasingly annoyed at gardai - who by this stage had raided his home on the Navan Road in Dublin in a search for firearms and explosives.
“You’s have destroyed my f*cking life basically,” Dowdall told gardai in the interview.
He said he tried to help gardai but when his home was searched items like laptops were taken and “nothing was returned.
At one point during the day Dowdall began to complain about the media coverage and expressed concern about certain aspects of what was being reported.
Ms Justice Tara Burns presiding told the accused that she cannot direct the media on what aspects it can and cannot report on.
He also became frustrated at the interview tape being played and asked Mr Grehan if he had to sit there “and listen to stuff about my children.”
“This is the fourth day that I’ve been here and your sole purpose is to make me out to be a liar,” he said.
Mr Grehan SC also challenged Dowdall on the fact that gardai directly ask him about the AK47s used in the Regency and if he had any knowledge of them - with the witness then telling them that he didn’t.
Mr Grehan asked why the witness told gardai this despite the fact that he did know about the guns.
Dowdall said again he wasn’t able to tell the truth at the time because there would have been “massive consequences.”
But he insisted that what he was saying to gardai at the time was “not lies.”
“I couldn’t say anything in there to so with the Regency Hotel. Any aspect,” he said.
Mr Grehan put it to the witness that if he wasn’t telling the truth then it was lies.
“Whatever you say Mr Grehan,” the witness responded.
“I couldn’t say that I knew.”
In his interview with gardai Dowdall was at pains to say he wasn’t involved in crime - adding that his poster was all over the inner city and if he was, it would be known.
He claimed he was “an honest man” and was “never involved in crime in my life ever.”
Earlier in the day Dowdall claimed that talking to Gerry Hutch about getting involved in crime wasn’t something you could do - and if you tried, he wouldn’t entertain it.
“Gerard wasn’t the kind of person. He was the wrong fella to say it to,” he said.
“He wouldn’t discuss anything like that and no more would I want to talk about something that would maybe jeopardise me,” Dowdall told gardai.
He said that Hutch did discuss with him “the fear” he was going through, adding that he was “a normal man like everyone else.”
He said Hutch’s brother was only after dying and “everyone else was dying around him.”
He said his understanding at that point was that there was “a falling out with Gary,” and that he was murdered.
Dowdall told gardai that it was “terrible” but “that’s the end that it comes to,” and said those involved in that world “know the risks involved.”
Mr Grehan SC was challenging Dowdall on various aspects of his helping his father book a hotel room for Kevin ‘Flat Cap’ Murray - and tried to find out why the witness plead guilty to facilitating a murder.
He said he wanted to find this out because the witness was claiming that he unknowingly booked a hotel room - and that this wasn’t an offence.
Dowdall responded by saying that he was “reckless” and that he should have asked questions and known what he was doing - and therefore he pleaded guilty.
“I had a hand in booking the room. I didn’t know what it was going to be used for,” Dowdall said.
“I am guilty and I’m responsible for that,” he added.
Later in the exchange things became heated when Dowdall said to Mr Grehan that he thinks he was “doing your utmost to destroy me in every way possible you can.”
He said that the senior counsel defending for Hutch was bringing up all sorts of “insinuations” and “accusations,” - “even going so far as embarrassing me over medical issues.”
Mr Grehan responded by saying that Mr Dowdall had brought up matters private to him of his own volition.
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