This week, Newslaundry’s Abhinandan Sekhri, Raman Kirpal, Jayashree Arunachalam and Prateek Goyal are joined by journalist Faye D’Souza.
On the polls in Maharashtra, Faye says there is “a lot of goodwill” for the Thackerays. “Eknath Shinde does not enjoy that goodwill because of what was done to the Thackerays.” She adds that there was confusion about election symbols because of the split within the NCP and the Shiv Sena. “A lot of voters did not know the difference between their symbols.”
The panel then discusses the elections in Delhi and the alleged Swati Maliwal assault case. Raman breaks down the arithmetic of Delhi polls. “In 2019, the BJP’s margin of victory was 25 percent and above.” Abhinandan says that the coming together of the AAP and the Congress is “statistically not enough” to defeat the BJP in the national capital.
On the Porsche car crash incident in Pune, Jayashree says the story is getting traction because it “appeals very much to India’s upper middle class sensibilities”. Talking about the bail granted to the accused, she adds that all said and done, “we should not lose sight of the fact that any juvenile should get bail”.
This and a whole lot more. Tune in!
Hafta letters: Election commission, legacy media and VVPAT
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Song: Vaishnav Jan To
Timecodes
00: 00:00 - Introduction
00:07:32 - Headlines
00: 13:22 - Elections in Maharashtra
00:24:38 - Elections in Delhi, Swati Maliwal case
00:43:20 - Porsche car crash in Pune
01:05:50 - Faye’s recommendation
01:20:17 - Letters
01:39:45 - Panel recommendations
References
Porsche case: No, the minor did not release a ‘rap video’. The media got it wrong
Recommendations
Faye D’Souza
Prateek
Jayashree
Raman
Can SP-Congress alliance take on ‘Ram’ with ‘Samvidhan’ in eastern UP?
NU & DU students talk about RW takeover of universities & more
Pune Porsche Crash: Things wouldn’t be this bad if India’s criminal justice system wasn’t broken
Abhinandan
“Everyone is absolutely terrified”: Inside a US ally’s secret war on its American critics
Check out our previous Hafta recommendations.
Produced and recorded by Aryan Mahtta, edited by Hassan Bilal.
Hafta 486
Sting: [00:00:00] This is a News Laundry Podcast and you're listening to NL Hafta.
Abhinandan: Welcome to another episode of Hafta from a sweltering Delhi. This is the hottest summer I think in the last five to seven years.
Raman: This week is going to be amazing. very, very hot and we have elections on Saturday.
Abhinandan: Right. And, uh, all our reporters are out wherever they are.
God bless them. I hope they remain hydrated. Uh, but before I give you the headlines and introduce the panel, we have two very special guests, by the way. I would like to remind everybody. Uh, that do contribute to the election fund, uh, the ad free non sponsored election coverage. We are doing some special reports with Hridesh Joshi, Srinivasan Jain and Karma Paljor.
Hopefully we'll get more and more veterans to join us. So [00:01:00] this is only possible because of your contributions. So the link is in the show notes below. Contribute, subscribe, pay to keep news free because it's very, very important. And also there's an LTA. Let's talk about a conversation with former Chief Election Commissioner Qureshi.
Not one press conference
Audio insert: has been given. Is that unusual? Even if I'm very camera shy, media shy, very shy person, I speak very little. I have no business to be quiet, keeping quiet. No, no, we don't talk. We are very shy people. That's not acceptable. Now, they are begging for an appointment, and the Election Commission not giving them an appointment.
What is this? This is not discretion. They are paid salaries to do their job, and this is a part of their job. People have started losing faith. Absolutely, they have. If I'm there, if you talk to me, ask me a question about election, I will answer it better when I'm sleeping. The assumption is you are the
Abhinandan: peak of the pyramid.
That you are the top and you are not answerable to anybody. Whereas it's actually the opposite.
Audio insert: [00:02:00] That is arrogance because the fact that we are not answerable to the government, to the parliament, to the president, anybody, only to our conscience and the constitution, which puts more onus on us. This is let's
Abhinandan: talk about India's 2024 Lok Sabha polls.
He's spoken like he's never spoken before. Usually he's very, very diplomatic and he was. Clearly rather annoyed with what the election commission has brought upon on itself.
Raman: Did he, did he say anything on the EVM?
Abhinandan: Yes, he said, I mean, he explained the process of how the EVM is sealed and it's signed. And so it's, I mean, to meddle with that is logistically such a mammoth task.
He says, I don't believe that can happen. But. The way the election commission is conducting the election. He was very dissatisfied with, uh, so, uh, first let me introduce the panel. So we have a very special panel for you today. We have two guests, uh, both from Maharashtra. [00:03:00] Uh, let me introduce the regulars in the studio first, Raman Kirpal.
Hello. Welcome, sir. And I'm Abhinandan Sekhri. And Manisha is somewhere in UP right now?
Raman: No, uh, she fell ill. Uh, tomorrow she's going to UP. She's
Abhinandan: going to UP. Heat stroke. Everyone's getting heat stroke. I told her to remain hydrated. They don't listen to elders. Uh, and, uh, right now, uh, Atul is in Bengal. Oh, no, he's in Patna.
Oh, I see. Okay. He's in Bihar. So right now in the studio, there's us joining us on zoom is, uh, the last hafta for a while for Jayshree Arunachalam. Jayshree is off for three or four months to Oxford. No, it's not Oxford. Then it's Essex. Jo bhi X toh hai usmein. For us Punjabis, it's the same. London. Yes. I'm going to an island.
So something which has like Essex, Oxford or something, London, we've in Punjab called Vilayat. [00:04:00] And, uh, when Mehraj went, I said, Memma, Shemma, but I won't say that to you because you're shady. She will see the elections. Oh yeah. You'll get to see the elections. My God. You should come. Yeah. Okay. Okay. In fact, I think this is the first time in, I think, I dunno, a hundred years, we should check that the us, the UK and Indian election has happened in the same year.
Mm-Hmm. . We should check on that because this year was Taiwan election. There was a 27 countries elections happened this year and now UK has joined.
Jayashree: Yeah. Should be exciting.
Abhinandan: So four months you'll be there on a special course about podcasting. Is that right?
Jayashree: That's right. And it's actually only three months, but we can say four.
Because let's see if they'll extend it, but yeah, so it's about podcasting sort of what it's like to do it a little bit on production and things. So I'll come back and really wow you guys with my new knowledge. Yeah,
Abhinandan: you see, suddenly we'll have a podcast that's going to be better than LTA, better than Hafta, better than any other podcast.
It's gonna [00:05:00] be Jayshree's podcast.
Jayashree: I'll allow you guys to appear on it as guests. Thank you so
Abhinandan: much. Uh, also joining us is our very own cracker journalist Prateek from Pune. Hello. The city that has been in the headlines. We'll get some first hand credible on ground information from Prateek because I want to discuss that case in a little more detail.
Not just that case, but what it tells us about our news and everything else. And of course, Faye D'Souza joins us from Bombay. Hi, Faye.
Faye DSouza: Hi.
Abhinandan: Good to see you.
Faye DSouza: Good to see you guys too. Uh, so Russia also had elections this year. I think that that's that election eclipse you were talking about.
Abhinandan: Um, but Russia may, I mean.
It
Faye DSouza: doesn't count. Doesn't
Abhinandan: count. But Faye, I'm sure everybody who's She's a journalist who has had an extremely high profile, uh, and, uh, very visible career. She was the face of [00:06:00] mirror now, uh, and it was one of the few islands of fantastic and good and sensible discussions that used to happen when the broadcast age was kind of going through the flux.
Should we go completely insane or should we kind of maintain a balance? Uh, and now she runs her own platform. She has a show called the urban debate. She discusses corruption, criminal violence, independent press, and she's been awarded the Reddink Award for Journalism of the Year in 2018. Fantastic.
Sophie, and you're also doing a show on Quint right now, is that right?
Faye DSouza: So, uh, the Urban Debate used to be on Mirror Now. I think it still is. I'm not on Mirror Now anymore. Um, I now do various shows on YouTube. I do, uh, we do a collab with Quint.
Right.
Faye DSouza: So Quint team, uh, and my team sort of collab. For this election specifically and for, you know, political journalism and the stuff that they do.
So whenever they do some cool report, um, you know, we, we talk about it on, uh, our channel and we put it on the app that, uh, you know, [00:07:00] my, uh, you know, that I have, so that my audience gets access to like, and that's called beetroot.
Abhinandan: So you can click on the link in the show notes below. You can get an idea of the social media, uh, handles to follow to watch a phase coverage.
And of course you can also download beetroot the app.
Faye DSouza: Yes. To the app. You can find us on YouTube, you can find us, uh, you know, on Instagram and on Facebook,
Abhinandan: right? Uh, now let's get into the headlines and then we shall get into the discussions.
Jayashree: So here are the headlines for the week. The Calta High code on Wednesday canceled the OBC certificates issued by West Penal Government since 2010.
Hours later, Mamata Banerjee said she will not accept the order and OBC reservation will continue. Now, the election commission directed BJP party, BJP chief JP Nadda and Congress president Mallika Arjun Karge to tell their star campaigners to correct their discourse, exercise care and maintain decorum.[00:08:00]
They've kept it as general as possible.
Abhinandan: So they don't, they have kept it as general as possible. So don't call out anyone specifically.
Jayashree: Yeah. They said issues shouldn't divide society, which again could be anything at all.
Raman: And it comes after five phases of election. Now I think the sixth we are going to have, so that is also over more or less.
And in seventh, you have around 50. Seats. Seats,
Jayashree: that's
Raman: it.
Jayashree: But it's been quite busy this week because the ec also Barr, BJP Lova candidate from West Bengal, uh, former KO Judge Abbi gang Pier from campaigning for 24 hours after he made improper in judicious and undignified remarks against man banerjee.
Abhinandan: Yeah.
Jayashree: Also, this week the election commission told the Supreme Court there's no legal mandate for the commission to disclose voter turnout data based on form 17 C, or the record of votes polled in every poll polling station. They also said, this data is amenable to mischief and vitiation of the entire electoral space.
Raman: If you, nobody [00:09:00] can vitiate it, nobody can ka
Abhinandan: election se kya lehna dena? Democracy aur Election commission ko decide karne? Hum hi
Raman: decide karenge, karenge.
Jayashree: Right. Next, documents secured by OCCRP and reviewed by the Financial Times suggest the Adani group passed off low quality coal as far more expensive, cleaner fuel in transactions with an Indian state power utility.
We also published this on News Laundry. And we keep
Abhinandan: polluting, breathing polluted air. Everyone keeps asking what's happening, who's doing anything. Meanwhile, this is happening.
Jayashree: Yes, then one person was killed to injured in bullet with bullet injuries in post poll violence in Bihar's Saran district. The police said it was a fallout of a clash between supporters of the RJD and BJP.
Raman: Atul has gone there today. Okay. So he's going to get an on ground report. Great.
Jayashree: In a big story that Pune killed two people by allegedly driving his Porsche car over their motorcycle on Sunday. The accused is from the family of a prominent city realtor and was allegedly under the influence of [00:10:00] alcohol.
He was granted bail on the condition that he writes an essay on the crash.
Raman: Yeah, but the story is quite comprehensive. The
Jayashree: Assam government evicted around 400 Bengali origin Muslim families and bulldozed makeshift homes in Dharang district. These are the same families whose homes were razed in a violent eviction drive in September 2021.
Now in bigger election updates, the fifth phase of the Lok Sabha polls took place on Monday, May 20th, uh, with an estimated voter turnout of 60. 48%. Maharashtra had the lowest turnout of 54. 33. West Bengal had the highest at 75. 56.
Raman: Let's see how many people are going to come out and vote in Delhi.
Abhinandan: Delhi, that would be interesting.
On Saturday. But it is miserably hot. No,
Raman: it's already predicted. It's 46 plus.
Abhinandan: Wow, okay.
Jayashree: Oh God. In Bangalore, a court granted bail to JDS, MLA, and former Karnataka minister H. D. Revvanna in a sexual abuse case involving him and his son Prajwal. Meanwhile, the Karnataka government has written to the Ministry of External Affairs to [00:11:00] cancel Prajwal's diplomatic passport because he is currently absconding.
Abhinandan: Yeah, and they are still in process. Otherwise, the OCI cards are cancelled overnight, but in this case Yes, this
Jayashree: will take some time. It will take a long time. In gems of Moori of the Week days after our Prime Minister says he does not engage in Hindu Muslim discourse. He claimed on Friday that the SA party and the Congress will I quote, run a bulldozer over the arm temple in AIA if the opposition Alliance is voted to power.
Abhinandan: And in fact, uh, this is after he scolded Gulu Man, Ebola Ki.
Jayashree: On Friday in Kyrgyzstan's Bishkek, a mob of around 200 or 300 locals attacked the hostels of foreign students, particularly those from India, Pakistan and Bangladesh. Several students were reportedly injured and the government has urged Indian citizens in Kyrgyzstan to stay indoors.
Abhinandan: Meanwhile, there was also the protest of Indians in Cambodia who are like bonded labor techies who were taken there as whatever tech support are being [00:12:00] used to do fraud and they have no way to escape. That's frightening. That's an interesting story, actually, as a long form.
Jayashree: On Wednesday, the UK Prime Minister, Rishi Sunak, announced the country will go to polls on July 4th to elect a new parliament.
Abhinandan: 2024 is a historic year.
Jayashree: And the last headline is three European countries, Norway, Spain and Ireland announced on Wednesday they will formally recognize Palestine as a state next week.
Abhinandan: And I think in follow up action, Israel has recalled their, uh, representatives from all three countries.
Jayashree: As one does. And you may take is hafte ki adla
Abhinandan: badli.
In Haryana, Birendra Singh left BJP and joined the Congress after his son was denied a ticket from Hisar. In Uttar Pradesh, Samajwadi Party MLA Manoj Singh joined the BJP. In Odisha, Nimapara MLA quit BJD and joined BJP. In Punjab, ex AAP leader Jass Jag Bir Singh Brar joins BJP. Again in Punjab, [00:13:00] BJP MLA Sukhpal Singh Nannu and Shirmani Kalidhar MLA Darshan Singh Kottfata join.
Raman: And for a comprehensive look, please read our series, Know Your Turncoats.
Abhinandan: Yeah.
Raman: And we are talking about all the Particularly the candidates who are contesting this time. So how many times they turned political allegiance.
Abhinandan: Yeah. Now let's discuss in depth what we have planned. So first let me go to Faye first.
Faye, you've done, uh, like a big picture of the Maharashtra election, Bombay in particular, I guess where you are and Delhi, uh, A. I mean, I don't know if you guys saw Yogendra Yadav's analysis or predictions and
Faye DSouza: yeah, I interviewed Yadav yesterday. Oh, you did.
Abhinandan: And Prashant Kishore's little meltdown with Karan Thapar.
And, uh, I mean, at least in Delhi, everyone says we'll beat 4 [00:14:00] 3. Uh, but at least from the little bit that I am seeing in Delhi. I mean, I, I'd be surprised if it's a 7 0 whitewash and not that I'm asking anyone to predict, but 7
Faye DSouza: 0 whitewash in whose favor?
Abhinandan: Like it was last time and BJP's favor. I don't see that happening again, but who knows?
But give us an idea of the Bombay voter, you know, Shiv Sena, Thackeray loyalty. Is it a big deal? You know, depending on who you speak with, it is that Eknath Shinde will be finished. So it's basically Shiv He, that, that bit is done. Is that really the case? And after that Pratik can also win because he also understands Maharashtra politics quite well.
Faye DSouza: So see what I'm hearing on the ground and also from speaking to colleagues and former colleagues who track rural Maharashtra is that there is a lot of goodwill for the Thakuris. Within what used to be the Shiv Sena. Eknath Shinde doesn't enjoy that goodwill because people [00:15:00] do not like what was done to the Thakuris.
They're seeing it as sort of an insult.
Abhinandan: Betrayal.
Faye DSouza: Yes. On the other hand, there's the NCP split. The NCP though, Ajit Pawar is a popular leader on his own. Uh, unlike Eknath Shinde who was not as popular. So Abar has pulled some of that, uh, you know, some of that model away from Shavar. Um, here's the thing though.
There's massive, or there was massive confusion about the symbols. Ah,
Jayashree: yeah. '
Faye DSouza: cause um, you know, the Dan, which was uh, which has been a generational symbol for the Shina and the , the clock, which has been with Shavar since we started, have boats shifted to the other side, which you effectively, if you press these two buttons, you were voting against these two people.
A lot of voters did not know that difference because it was so instinctive to go back to those symbols that, uh, and I'm not just talking about, and these were reports from like rural Pune where, you know, um, the Pawars have a lot of voting and [00:16:00] I'm talking about like Maharashtra's urban Mumbai, Pune, these kind of places where people did not know that the switches had been made.
And this, this symbol does not mean this individual anymore. So, Even though loyalties would have been a problem for Irda Chinde, the fact, the actual fact that the manner in which the operation Lotus played out in Maharashtra, where eventually these two men lost their two symbols would have actually been the bigger card.
Um, I felt in this election, the confusion, uh, would have been the bigger part. And of course, we know that Mumbai voted so poorly, uh, the voter turnout was quite bad. But
Abhinandan: isn't that like, not unusual?
Faye DSouza: I think it was worse than usual.
Abhinandan: Oh, it was worse than
Faye DSouza: usual. Yes, traditionally Mumbai votes badly, but this time it was worse than, you know, even what was normally expected.
Jayashree: Are there specific reasons though as to why Mumbai always votes so badly? Or it's just like one of those, I mean, I saw a lot of people trying to say, you know, apathy, this and that, but it's been like a traditional sort of
Faye DSouza: thing. Yeah, I think that, you [00:17:00] know, um, a lot of people either live overseas, a lot of people live in other cities.
Now there's a, we have a lot of lost votes for that reason. I read one, uh, slightly disturbing, um, you know, sort of reason, which is that we lost a lot of people to COVID and not, you know, You know, everything would be updated on those, uh,
Abhinandan: you know, wow, that's on the list to impact the number. I mean, one theory I can give you, this was the first story I worked on and this was, I think, winter of early 95 or 94.
I was still a kid. Finishing my final year when I had Sabrina who got me into NewsTrack was working on the story, the mother of all battles, Delhi versus Mumbai. NewsTrack did a long seven minute story on that. Uh, it was a light story, but it was fun. Uh, and in that, while interviewing Sanjay Dutt, uh, you know, on this journey, he's like, kya hai na, apn log kahaan kya ho raha hai, yeh kya ho raha hai, Mumbai mast hai apna, hum khush hai, hum koi parva nahi desh [00:18:00] mein kya ho raha hai.
So that was his, and that was basically what the story was. Did that number. They don't give a shit. Mumbai is an island on its own. It's its own republic. And one very interesting, uh, interview in that era was, uh, Mahesh Jethmalani was interviewed and his wife, Haseena Jethmalani, who was stunning back then, I remember, I mean, I was, I was logging the tapes and Mahesh Jethmalani was sitting there and she was saying, you know, Bombay's so cosmopolitan, Delhi's got these, you know, large Punjabi men with hairy chests and gold chains.
And cameraman was so smart back then, the cameraman just panned to Mahesh Jitmalani, who was sitting in a white shirt with a gold chain and a hairy chest like this. And not a word was said. It was brilliant. But, uh, Pratik, you tell us, what do you make of what's happening in Maharashtra? And also, tell us about Milind Deora.
Like, he's a political non entity. He's Muridiyar's son. By himself, he's [00:19:00] nobody. Like, why is he all over cameras talking about politics? I'm wondering. Is he, does he have any standing at all?
Prateek: First of all, I mean, like, the Maharashtra protests that have taken place,
But there's a BJ stated the last time BJP 40, the N 41 signed.[00:20:00]
Abhinandan: And outta that.[00:21:00]
Prateek: I see,
Raman: but what about Bombay? Sorry,
Faye DSouza: if I could ask Pratik a question, Pratik. The issues of farmers in rural Maharashtra, sugarcane prices, irrigation, lack of water, MSP issues, tribal farmers issues that have not been sorted out, Maratha,[00:22:00]
Prateek: he says they only have the mask built down offered at, uh. Uh, tribal areas, Maraca Reservation reservation. Uh, this reservation, zaghi Sauri, I like to go mess around and actually up and thinking the more things to be a well done in reality.
This was not, in fact, this
Abhinandan: I, I saw. Uh, on this onion thing and he said, why do you ban [00:23:00] an onion export that benefited Pakistan? Looks blankly at him and says center center decided. I did not. I mean, he has no answer to anything. He's Yeah, but I mean as their ally you can't say And decide I have nothing to say He's got this very blank expression to anything that's asked to him.
It's, it's, it's quite strange, but
he's supposedly very strong in that area. Far strong. He's very strong. He is supposed to be. The, the God of Thne. But,
Faye DSouza: but, but that's like two constituency. I mean, uh, outta 40 48
Prateek: was supposed to contest from there.[00:24:00]
Right.
BJP
Abhinandan: is in a very comfortable, you know, there and like, you know, their downside is low. Their upside is very high with this whole Eknath Shinde's thing. They've, they've played it well, but coming to Delhi, so, you know, we'll get back to the panel there. Today, Swati Malewal has given an interview to ANI. And they have taken Biba to Bombay.
I don't know, for some reason, investigating his.
Raman: That was day before
Abhinandan: his alleged slaps to Swati. He had
Raman: traveled to Bombay. So they want to go to Bombay. Seated
Abhinandan: whom all he met. So, because that has to do with the [00:25:00] case. And, uh, meanwhile, the guy
Faye DSouza: was. Sorry, I read that they took him to Bombay because apparently he did something with his phone, I don't know why Bombay, they have to bring him to India.
Abhinandan: Also. Incidentally, the guy who slapped Kanhaiya Kumar was out on bail the same day. He's out on bail. And he's out on bail and issuing video warnings on Twitter saying that, I'll beat up anyone who says tukde, whatever.
So for clearly the, the, the Delhi Police works in mysterious ways. Uh, but, uh, so from the reporters that you are talking to on your own, [00:26:00] this entire issue, is it a political thing or it's just something that is playing up on Twitters for, you know, party, partisans to go at each other or is it an issue for voters?
Raman: For voters, uh, as I think it's very difficult to predict as, uh, you know, in case of Maharashtra also saying that this issue is going to tilt. Uh, you know, the wave in favor of, uh, say Aam Aadmi Party is very, in fact, Kejriwal's arrest had, uh, impact on the ground. You can see,
Abhinandan: yeah, the sympathy was that
Raman: impact.
But if you look at the arthmetic of, uh, you know, daily elections, seven seats, 2019 BJP had pulled 55 percent of the votes and their margin in all the seven constituency was 25 percent and above. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. At that time, Congress and AAP were not fighting. If now, assuming, I mean, they, they [00:27:00] are not together.
So assuming statistically speaking, it still is not enough. Statistically, they pulled 40 percent votes to both of them together in 2019. So 55, 40, 15 percent of the vote, unless you have.
Abhinandan: That's all of Delhi.
Raman: Anti Modi wave. It
Abhinandan: is going to be very difficult. But that would be all of Delhi combined, right? But in each constituency, the margin may have been less or more.
Raman: No, that's what I'm saying. The minimum margin was 25 percent. In the rest of, uh, there is 35 percent, 37 percent.
Abhinandan: So the minimum was 25 percent. So it has to be a wave for them. It has to be a wave. So that means Delhi would be a good bellwether. If they're losing seats in Delhi, then they're losing them everywhere else.
Because here the margin is huge. But what do you make of it? Um, you have People in Delhi, you're covering the election.
Faye DSouza: So, um, so the people that I have spoken to, again, it's difficult to tell if the Swati Malewal issue is actually going to cost Kejriwal, but I think that what it has done is it [00:28:00] slowed down and dented the pace of their campaign.
Um, uh, because you, I think had two days before, you know, between being released from jail and, and, and the Satyamani Bal, uh, accusation. And in those two days, he sort of dominated the headlines because he was making statement after statement. He said Modi will retire. Then he said that Yogi Indra will be removed from his position.
Amit Shah will become prime minister. So he was sort of playing the game to some extent and he dominated conversation. That changed very quickly. As soon as this accusation came up,
Abhinandan: then he became defensive. Then he went on the defensive. I
Faye DSouza: think he was caught completely off guard, you know, because they've done so many flip
Abhinandan: flops since then.
Faye DSouza: Sanjay Singh acknowledged that something had happened. Then Ateshi Mallena said nothing had happened. And then K. Srimann's last statement, which was also incidentally, his first statement was, um, There are two versions. I feel like the Aam Aadmi Party has been caught off guard and any [00:29:00] sort of damage they could have done to the BJP in this time has been covered.
Damn it.
Raman: No, I think, I think, uh, casual, uh, he sensed it. So he changed his strategy. So, uh, first he made, uh, made, uh, you know, macro statements on more the end or now he's having nukers of us. So the nukers have, and he's having not one, two, he's having 10 to 15 in a day.
Abhinandan: This is like he didn't. Yeah. Yeah. So he,
Raman: so he just changed his tactics.
So I think.
Abhinandan: I think I think it's gone back to his original format, which used to be just attend dozens of small, small, small, small, and he's going
Raman: with his wife. So first he speaks and then then then wife says that if do you want to see your leader to go to jail, if you don't want to see him going to jail, Back to jail.
Please vote for our mother. So, I mean, we, uh, and mole has done a very good piece on this video story, which is we are publishing it today.
Abhinandan: Right? [00:30:00] Also, we'll be public by the time this is up. Hopefully, uh, let's talk about with, uh, former C. C. Courage will also be up. Have a look at that. Jesse, what do you make of it with the benefit of distance?
Jayashree: Um, on a personal level, so, I mean, I do think the sympathy vote swings in favor of Kejriwal, especially out of jail and all. On a personal level, I feel the entire thing was very embarrassing to sort of watch, especially the Aatishi press conference. I think just the sort of headlines it kind of generated was, it was depressing to see a party where, like Shpe said, you first have Sanjay Singh saying, yes, we'll get an investigation, the CM wants it, and then Aatishi comes and says something else, and then we wait for the third response.
But, That said, at the end of the day, I don't know if, um, well, this is all sort of good for, you know, quick sort of social media takes. I think, I don't think issues of women being, you know, allegedly abused have ever really had that much currency with voters. I mean, it's a terrible thing to say, but I don't think it doesn't.
I mean, if it did, if that was the case, Brijbhushan Singh and his son [00:31:00] would get a ticket,
right?
Jayashree: No, a little, put a little career to care of. But we know now that people sort of soak it up the way they would soak up gossip. They don't really take it seriously as, You know, something that should be worried about.
So setting that, so I would therefore set that aside and it's sort of impact on the AAP. And I think would in Delhi, at least I'm assuming you'd go back to issues on basics, right? Like education and electricity, water health. I mean, I wouldn't say the AAP seems like a trailblazer from where I sit, but possibly a bit more than maybe what previous governments have done.
So. I mean, you guys could tell me, but I would assume that that would maybe count for a little more when people consider the AAP.
Abhinandan: So, I, I tend to hold my views on this because I'm often accused of being a partisan considering this. When this whole IAC started, it was the NGO that Arvind Manish and I had founded.
Uh, but, uh, what do you say make of it, Prateek? You think it's an issue? It's a political issue? It says, it's Tweeter, broadcast media, we are all happy, [00:32:00] but the voter doesn't matter. Like,
Prateek: Jessie took the example of Dermot Hussien Singh, who was the address of the Christian movement. So, he and the AAP are a little different.
Um, uh, women's rights. Um, uh, But whatever it is, they project it in that way. This is already Bhaubali of Vidhushan Singh. It doesn't matter if he is raped or not. His USP is different. His USP has nothing to do with this. That is a different thing. He plays a power game. For example, he calculates money in a different way.[00:33:00]
Abhinandan: But I would just like to ask you may, it may be an unfair question and you can tell me it's a shitty question and not I choose to answer, but do you think. Uh, the emergence of the CCTV and the FIR and lots of including Ravish has done a comparison of the two. You think it's fair, unfair, different standards are being applied, uh, to Swati just because, you know, of it's up and people tend to be softer, you know, of a certain standing.
But do you, do you think that inconsistency is something that people take note of or that doesn't matter? Or is it even unfair to talk about that inconsistency because it could be natural with, it need not necessarily. be suspect. Uh, anyone has a take on this?
Jayashree: But I mean, don't you think also the media is running with inconsistencies and CCTVs?
Because if there is an inconsistency, then it would show the, then the BJP would be, I mean, whatever [00:34:00] the outcome of that may be, it works for example, for the BJP, right? Because it just shows that, There is a, he said, she said sort of story going on within the AP and any kind of controversy within the AP works well for.
Abhinandan: So it doesn't matter whether, as long as there's noise.
Jayashree: And I also want to say about what Pratik said, I mean, Pratik, I'll be honest, I only followed half of what you said because you're still talking in Hindi, though I know you can talk in English, but like, so my thing with the entire, I mean, I understand the AP is more, you know, feminist party, but then again, I mean, the CPIM is a more feminist party, the DMK is a more feminist party, and many, you know, in many of their own ways, and there are still terrible stories of, you know, women's rights and abuse and things that happen within them, and I just think this is a function of India where it is.
not something that voters react to when they vote. I mean, these stories come out, they get a lot of press in some cases, in many cases they do not, but I don't think the average Indian voter really, you know, [00:35:00] takes that into account when making decisions. It doesn't
Raman: go well. I think AAP is all about image.
No, but it doesn't, it doesn't go well with AAP's image. But having said that, if you look at the strategy, uh, which is political, Maliwal is making it political. Uh, you know, by giving the kind of statements she has given and Aam Aadmi Party is trying to isolate this incident as one individual, like the first one, it's a family matter.
It's not a party
Abhinandan: thing. We'll resolve it in the family. That was Sanjay's first. Yes. Yes. Sanjay's first. So,
Raman: so this is, both are, both are political, but AAP, AAP, AAP, AAP, AAP, AAP, AAP, AAP, is trying to, you know, uh, you know,
Abhinandan: minimize keeping its
Raman: image intact. And as I said, the strategy changed going for this. I think
Abhinandan: the initial Sanjay, I think the, the belief still was that we can resolve it, you know, old fellow travelers of 20, 22 years know each other.
We'll figure this out. They thought it was ego hassle, but then clearly it [00:36:00] spiraled in a different zone. And I think Sanjay's press conference was with that confidence that
But clearly it didn't go what do you make of the The cctv does it change anything? Does it matter? or not because that's If they are the only two people there, what resolution can come to this case?
Faye DSouza: So I don't think we've seen the whole CCTV. Now that's the problem, which, um, you know, even, even Swati Baliwal said put it out in full context.
And I think that anyone who's looking, because whatever has been released is this small clip, the first one taken on a cell phone, the second one of her being escorted out.
Right.
Faye DSouza: But Um, if I'm not mistaken, you and you know, if you're in Delhi, you'd be able to help answer this question. It was the chief minister's home office waiting, right?
No. So they should have the CCTV visual of that room because there's that much security. It wasn't the home
Abhinandan: office, that room, which where the alleged assault is. It's supposed to happen. [00:37:00] It's inside his main house. That is actually his living room. There is a small living room and there's a large living room.
This is the small living room. So the CCTV ends at the entrance. Inside his home there's no CCTV because that's his home. So that, that cell phone clip that you see has been taken from someone who was in the living room with her. But there are no CCTV cameras there. So we will never know what happened there.
There's, there's,
Faye DSouza: But then in that case, what the visual that we're seeing is, is inconclusive, right? Because it doesn't really tell us anything.
Abhinandan: Yeah, I know. So
Raman: I'm And politics of it. I mean, you have also have to take that. I mean, look at the entire media, the way they lab labbed it up. The Delhi police, Delhi police prompt reaction on, even if it is a slap.
As, as it has happened with Kanhaiya Kumar also here, they have set up an SIT,
Abhinandan: there
Raman: is an SIT, which has taken him to Bombay and they are now, uh, today they are taking [00:38:00] statement of, uh, you know, parents of, uh, KGY. Right,
Abhinandan: right. So,
Faye DSouza: As a, as a, um, a woman what I find kind of sad. About this entire election is the number of these instances that have been that it where it's difficult to tell how much of it is about the women in question and how much of it is about the politics.
There was to begin with Sandesh Kali. Then there was the Rajwan Rewana case. Then there is this one. There is the, uh, the, you know, the governor of West Bengal and, you know, in every case in Sandesh Kale's now, you know, there's another story that they were actually paged to make that accusation. It was a similar thing that happened with the Prajnal Rewada case.
I don't know. I feel that in this, in this election, the rights of women have just sort of, you know, the lines are blurred so badly. And it's been used as a tool, uh, you know, whether or not the incident did happen, what happens after that is, is so deeply politicized. And it's [00:39:00] kind of sad that we're in an election where less than 10 percent of the candidates are women.
Raman: Yeah.
Faye DSouza: You
Raman: know, the number is dwindling. I mean, they have gone down like hell. Yeah. I think
Abhinandan: also in these hyper polarized times, one, uh, unfortunate outcome is that normally, you know, Issues that are non partisan, uh, such as assaults, you know, violence against women, misogyny, generally, have become political tools which are used in ways most unfortunate.
And it's not just about a real incident being politicized, it is wanting to whip up things on everyone. You know, something that may be a kind of issue, but you know, it's like everyone's a player in this. And I remember we had a discussion on Hafta five, six years ago, and I think Deepanjana was here then.
We were discussing this. [00:40:00] I mean, even then things had become kind of hyper partisan, not to this extent, but there was a, a hesitancy in saying that You know, um, listen to all women, but you don't have believe all women, you that . But at this, you know, there, there was that, I don't, there was some hashtag believe all women and then someone said, not believe, I think some woman, only some Hollywood said No, the hashtag should be believe
Jayashree: ho was the hashtag.
Yeah. Believe
Abhinandan: her. And then someone had said a hashtag that can be a default position. Listen to her. Because, you know, after the, in the US there were some cases emerged, but it was still that. It's not always a political thing. It's, I mean, it is a case between two people who have had an issue and you can believe or not believe, but not on political.
Now it politics is the starting point. You see, you start from there and it, and then from you backwards from the actual injustice that's happened. I think that is a huge change that's happened in the last five years.
Jayashree: I think at the end of the day, [00:41:00] everything has just become a story, right? It's not that we The average person doesn't actually want to know whether this did happen or not, there's no sort of, you know, we're talking about CCTV footage, it's not because we're talking about evidence or for proof or for whatever mounting cases against men who did alleged injustices to women, everything has just become some sort of gossip for online, I think the Swati Maliwal case is a great example of it because I saw some tweet or the other of people discussing whether, um, whether her kurta or the kurta she was wearing in the day had buttons on it, you know, but that's the level of discourse that it has reached, that these are the kind of conversations that people are very sort of emboldened to have nowadays.
Like, I think there are a lot of men who would have had these conversations back in the day, in the good old days, whatever. People are very sort of comfortable openly saying really terrible things about women all the time now and everything has just become a sort of political event like Sandesh Kali or even the Prajwal Rewana case that is by any normal standard an incredibly shocking thing to happen during the course of an [00:42:00] election but We've mostly forgotten about it also because Karnataka has voted, right?
So it's gone by in the news cycle. And now we're, we're moving on to this. Prajwal
Faye DSouza: Rewana is absconding. He has not returned from, um, you know, Germany. His grandfather's just put out a tweet just now while we were speaking, saying I've sent him a warning, telling him to come back and not test my patience and face.
Uh, you know, base legal, uh, he's actually released this two page letters in two languages, uh, that he sent to his grandson. But as, as you know, something that was so loud and so, you know, headline forward when Karnataka around the time that Karnataka was voting as now you're right, completely forgotten.
Abhinandan: So, right.
So I just want to move on to another subject. And if you could just stay with us for a few more minutes, uh, it's more general, it's a media commentary kind of zone. And I'll I'll tell you. Oh, my
favorite kind.
Abhinandan: Yeah. So, uh, but before that, uh, I want to remind everyone, pay to keep [00:43:00] news free because when the public pays, the public is served.
Uh, the link is in the show notes below. We have many things planned and, uh, next week we'll be making an announcement that all your subscribers would be very proud of. I'm not at liberty to make it right now. So stay tuned. And all those things are only possible because you guys subscribe. So subscribe and pay to keep news free.
Now, I want to talk about what happened in Pune and, you know, Pratik will give us the details because there's just so many facts flying around. Pratik can, you know, give them to us in some kind of context and order. His
Raman: report has come out.
Abhinandan: Oh, it's out. So you can read his report also on our website. But, uh, this boy who was 17 driving a Porsche, uh, I don't know how you pronounce it.
Some people are saying Porsche. I've heard a third pronunciation also. But, uh, And, uh, he was apparently drunk because there is CCD footage of him ordering drinks at a bar.
Raman: They spent 48, 000 rupees. Right.
Abhinandan: So, and then he crashed into this, uh, [00:44:00] motorcycle. I don't know whether the couple was sitting on the bike and, you know, two young people, a young man and a young girl died on the spot.
IT,
Raman: IT professionals.
Abhinandan: Horrific, horrible. I saw the parents and I don't think anything can be more heartbreaking for any human being than losing a child. Um, and then I saw this anger and outrage of anchors, uh, who have demonstrated very little spine, conscience on anything, suddenly find this guy and say, see, we are our impact.
You know, India Day was claiming our impact. We have got this 17 year old arrested. Now I have no sympathy for a brat. Many of you completely. Claim I'm communist and hate rich people. Uh, so none of you can claim I would have any sympathy for a man driving a Porsche who runs over them. My view on that Sanjeev Nanda case in Delhi, I don't know whether, and if you'll bother going back and listening to that.
Uh, Bratz driving [00:45:00] cars, I, but there's this nuance that I want to talk about where this man, Fadnavis, who doesn't have an iota, I have not heard him demonstrate any, an iota of conscience, anything. Suddenly when this becomes an election issue, everybody is taking their shot, like this guy is the punching bag.
Maybe deservedly so. But let's show how great we are, how wonderful human beings are, like bashing the fuck out of this 17 year old. Now, I have a list here of rich boy car crashes. December 7, 2013, an Aston Martin owned by Ambani's crashed. Uh, Very mysteriously. There were all sorts of conflicting versions.
Eventually, an old time, Joshi, the driver, uh, Al Joshi, confessed to being the driver . Um, you can read the news laundry report on it. We are one of the few who actually did an on-ground report. [00:46:00] Right? Uh, many who would be carrying this breaking, breaking, uh, even entity that was owned by. Carried one report and a ticker.
It was not this ongoing. Ah, who was the Aston Martin? Who bloody? No, because if you try to make an example of that to show how good you are, your channel will be shut and so will everything else. Uh, the people whose car that was were compensated with a brand new Audi six and a Skoda, two cars. Then Gujarat Jaguar crash in 20.
23 July, uh, a teen confessed to the second mishap, uh, but unharmed in a fire. This is, you can see the link below. Uh, the link to all these is there. A drunk teen in speeding Mercedes kills three in Mohali, Punjab. This happened March, 2022 in one, the Sanjeev Nanda case, which is the most horrific case. Six cops died.
He got away first time. Everyone turned hostile. Uh, and this is after cops died. And I remember that time I encountered a cop. In the [00:47:00] streets here and, uh, he was, you know, often cops are jerks. I was like, so, you know, five or six of your guys died. You couldn't do anything to that guy. You're bossing around in this market with these parking agents.
His face became this small because of course your pride is hurt. Five or six uniform men mowed down. The guy gets away scot free. I was like, what is your life worth? You can only afford to boss around these parking attendants. No, when you could not even get the brat who mowed down six of yours. The same thing I see.
So the two things simultaneously. So what I'm saying is one horrible person. Yes. Horrible thing. Yes. Should be punished. Yes. Two most convenient person to show how horrible we are. Now, either the law says, if you're a juvenile, you're tried as juvenile or the law says, You know, cutaway. It can't be when we feel he should be juvenile.
I remember during the case of Jyoti's rape here, who they call Nirbhaya, this whole [00:48:00] thing of the youngest was the most brutal. Later, there's nothing to show that he was the most brutal. Of course, it was horrific, horrible rape. He was not tried as an adult. Because that's the law. Now suddenly, Everyone, including anchors, want him to be tried.
If you're talking about having agency, what is the logic of age? That you have agency, you're mature enough to make an informed judgment, right? That logic, then if you really want to go down that road, should have to do with education, should have to do with access privilege. Then the more privileged you are, like in the Arthashastra, the harsher the punishment, because Agency has a lot to do with where you are in life.
So I just find it rather nauseating that this father wanted to buy everything out and just get an essay to write his son and he was absconding, great example he's setting when his son is in shit. He is bloody going from city to city. What a bloody loser. I don't know who the fuck you are. But dude, you really shouldn't have had kids.
But what is, [00:49:00] I won't say as nauseating or not, is taking this 17 year old as the ultimate villain to show what a hero I am. Take on a Modi or Shah. Let's see you demonstrate this heroism there. Usme sabki phat jayegi. That's my rant. Now, I just want to know as a, as media commentators, starting with Faye.
What, what is the disproportionate, like, wall to wall coverage of this? And he's a kid, whether he's a horrible kid or not, but he is a kid. A, should he be tried as an adult just because he drank? Then is the rule depending on our mood and how horrible the case is and how many cameras captured him drinking?
Or if the rule is below 18, you cannot be tried as an adult, then you cannot be tried as an adult, no matter what.
Faye DSouza: So, you know, on the, the, the, my, uh, comment on the media, right? Is that if we want to talk about, uh, unnecessary citizen deaths because of negligence or because there's one bad guy who didn't like that hoarding that collapsed on Ghatkopar, in [00:50:00] Ghatkopar on people's heads where there were bodies trapped under that hoarding for days because they needed to use welding cutters to cut through the metal and it had collapsed on a petrol pump and there was, it was too dangerous to weld because the whole thing could go up in fire.
There was a rally in Ghatkopar by the prime minister, the chief minister, the deputy chief minister in the same neighborhood while bodies were still under that hoarding. But nobody had any outrage then, like nobody had any feelings. Nobody was having any feelings at that point because you don't have feelings.
Nobody even in the, in the mainstream media wanted to do any impact of finding out. Who gave permission to that hoarding? What land it was sitting on? Because if it's sitting on rail based land, that's rail based ministry, that's union government. Nobody wants to know who in the BMC allowed this, because if you look at the BMC, BMC currently doesn't have any elected representatives.
It's reporting to the chief minister's office. That's ignorant. Nobody [00:51:00] did any of that research. They just, because that outrage is not convenient, but here you have one individual who is not, you know, you're, you're allowed to outrage because none of your political buddies are getting hurt. So everybody jumped on it and.
I mean, the, um, Juvenile Justice Act is very clear, it's been amended after the Nirbhaya case that if someone is between 16 and 18 and it's a heinous crime they can be tried as an adult, if there is a board, there's a paddock of a board who decides that and then specifies who should be on that board. Now, I don't know if that, that board has been assembled and if they actually follow the due process right now.
Abhinandan: Uh, what has been done because we've not heard to the best of my knowledge that boy was in correctional facility. Now he served his time as a juvenile and he's out. So he's still trying to, no, no,
Raman: but the law didn't apply,
Abhinandan: it can't be retrospective. Okay. Got it.
Faye DSouza: Yeah. So that, that guy finished and he got out and the fact that he got out cost more [00:52:00] outrage.
And then the law was amended in 2015. So the law that as it stands today is an amended law that says if you're between 16 and 18, and it's a heinous crime, that there can be a juvenile justice board with an NGO and a psychoanalyst that gets put together, that can examine your ability to understand the consequence of your action, and then decide whether or not you should be tried as an adult.
That should ideally be happening in this case, if that's what everybody believes, but I don't know if that due process has been followed. And, you know, he's now been sent to Rimand home, which is the juvie home. So I don't know what process they're following now. It's just knee jerk, which, which always happens in cases like this, right?
That's outrage. And the police quickly sort of scrambled to cover their tracks. We saw it happen in Hyderabad when the police just took these people to the corner and just
Abhinandan: Yeah.
Faye DSouza: Right. This is, this is how we've, as a, you know, this sort of public outcry for blood is how we've started dealing with this, with this sort of situation.
Regularly you will have [00:53:00] ministers come out and say, Oh, definitely that, I mean, it makes me uncomfortable.
Abhinandan: And also just one point, there was an interview that I watched on, uh, I think it was India Today or it could be another channel where, uh, they started demolishing some of these bars in Pune and you know, Pratik can tell us details of all that and one of the owners of that nightclubs or whatever, he says, here's my paper.
I have got permission. I'm paying a license fee. The reason they're demolishing it is that because one of the eyewitnesses over there, when this happened, was my partner, who I own, go in this bar slash restaurant with. And at the police station, he said, but I, but I tried to compromise saying that he wasn't driving do this.
And my partner who was witnessed there said, no, this guy was driving. And as a punishment to that, they're destroying. This bulldozes justice and now we'll demolish all this. So, and he said this on air, on camera, and he had [00:54:00] the papers. So he's saying it's not like this is. So, I mean, then, you know, cut to Fadnavi saying, oh, we shall take action and stuff.
It just, I just think it's nauseating. No matter how horrible a 17 year old, you really want to fight for something just these, you know, 40, 50 or like, even I sometimes hold my, you know, when I'm doing nasty pieces, uh, a nuisance, you know, if a journalist is 24, 23, then you kind of pull back because the dude has started doing journalism in the last three years when he thinks Sudhir, Arnab are normal people.
So I'm, it's not a, it's not a contest. I mean, you're not going to start punching a kid, right? But these, you know, journalists pitching 50 have no this thing, making an example of this 17 year old, no matter how horrible he is. But Prateek, just tell me the demolitions, uh, were they legit or not? How have they suddenly become illegitimate?
And the facts of this case, this father who went missing for I don't know how long.
Prateek: This issue became big [00:55:00] because of the police. Initially when this boy was
and those two people died, so he was handed.
Very close to grandfather of this. I see.[00:56:00]
Very rich
in that they put, uh, section 3 0 4 8.
Uh, next day
of. To talk to them and they were not nice to them. Basically rude. They were focusing more on, uh, about the relationship of the boy and the girl.
Abhinandan: Really? Yes. My God. Yeah. You have to be next level insensitive dick to be a copier. I think that's part of training.[00:57:00]
Prateek: That time. Well, you have to do kind of, uh, one is the personal appearance and then the other is blood sample test.
So for
Prateek: the next eight hours, it's the personal appearance test. Then in the afternoon, some crime reporters went there. So in in the police presence, uh, it was right inside the police station.
This boy was sitting on a reserve seat before reserve foreman, acp, ACP officer. He was sitting there and then these two black [00:58:00] there and body guard.
He went to.[00:59:00]
You are in custody. You killed 2 people. They are dead. You did everything else. You are telling them, we have no work, take us to the hangar, or to the vehicle. The ACP
got upset,
Prateek: he said, what are you saying? So, then he was taken there. After that, the condition of the jubilant justice board got bailed. Now, many people don't know that the jubilant justice board gives similar orders.
So as in,
Abhinandan: in the context, it's not unusual.
Prateek: Not unusual
Faye DSouza: justice.[01:00:00]
Prateek: Principal magistrate was not there. Second member was not there. Only one member was there.
He was the only person there.
If you think of a normal juvenile, where I agree you are right, if there is a poor child, or if someone has pickedpocketed or fought, then if he had to be beaten up, then they would have put him in the remand room. He would have got bail immediately. Then the police, the whole thing [01:01:00] came out and the order came out.
Uh, because it started because even
Abhinandan: took it up. No, political this thing then right. Everybody basically from Rahul to anchors to everyone is saying, let's use [01:02:00] this 17 year old. Yeah.
Prateek: And initially, their personal opinion was assessed and the police said it was negative. Alcohol. My
Abhinandan: God. Okay. And then they said They said it was negative
Prateek: and when the person said it in front of the GDP board, because it was written in the condition that he should be taken to the Muktang and De Addiction
Abhinandan: Centre here.
Right. It was
Prateek: written there that he should be taken for counselling to the Muktang and De Addiction Centre.
Abhinandan: So now, what is the status of the case as of today? It is good.
Prateek: Yes. So I'll be now. Yesterday, uh, this boy was, uh, being, uh, this bill was canceled and he was, uh, remanded, uh, sent to this remand home.
Ing day before yesterday, and he was arrested from this. So has anyone asked the father, like,
Abhinandan: what was your plan that you'll go absconding and your 70-year-old son is dealing with this? Like what was your plan like? The one thing I wanna ask as a pa, on the one hand, I [01:03:00] think the most horrible thing that can happen to any parent is the loss of your life's child, or something that's so serious.
I mean, people will already. Swim seven seas and, you know, top of the gates of hell to be by the child's side. This jackass is underground. So what was his plan that his son will say No,
Faye DSouza: you know, I mean also apparently this car which is the electric Porsche worth about two crore rupees between 1. 6 and 2.
4 crore rupees
in India, but
Faye DSouza: Was ordered for this boy. He was not driving his father's car. It was bought for him. And he just finished his exams. It was
Abhinandan: without, it was without a plate. Yeah, it was a temporary, yeah, correct, to admit. He had
Prateek: brought it from Bangalore and it was not, his registration was not complete since March.
Jayashree: Right.
Prateek: The car was roaming around like this.[01:04:00]
But I'd like to
Abhinandan: see how, what emerged from this case because, uh, I'm just coming to you, Jayshree, but just want to remind everybody, the Jessica Lal murder, which happened in front of a bar full of people, when the case finally ended, until the whole outrage happened, the guy, Every witness turned hostile and he had been acquitted.
Mm-hmm.
Abhinandan: Later he was guilty. Same thing in the Sanjiv Nanda case initially. So let's wait till the end of this case to see what actually happens.[01:05:00]
Prateek: Right.
Abhinandan: That's, that's what is.
Prateek: Ah. You picking on that? Yeah.
Abhinandan: Pick on the rest right by. I know you may have something else. If you need to leave, just let me know. Yeah, I do need to leave actually. Okay. So then before you go, can you just recommend something that enrich the lives of our listeners other than your app and your show, the links to which are provided below.
Faye DSouza: So [01:06:00] I really enjoyed Lapata Ladies.
Abhinandan: Oh, right. Yeah, that's, yeah, that was a good one. I watched it as well.
Faye DSouza: And I just read today, uh, you know, a piece of information that made me very happy. Apparently Lapata Ladies has done better views on Netflix than Animal.
Abhinandan: Is that right? Okay. Right. And
Faye DSouza: so I feel that some way there is a balance because I remember when Animal came out and we watched it and we were like, boss, What is this?
Like, you know, this is content in the opposite direction. And it just, it, it says so many things without seeing those things. And it's so heartwarming at the end to know that everything can work out. I think we're desperately in need of a happy ending in the, in the sort of world we're living in right now.
Uh, so I enjoyed it. If you haven't seen it, watch it. If you've seen it, watch it again. Because there's not that much stuff on Netflix to watch anyway, so
Abhinandan: that's my recommendation. Thanks, Faith. Always a pleasure speaking with you. thank you. I have a
Faye DSouza: toddler who's getting cranky so I have to run but thanks guys.
Thank you so much. It's been fun. Bye. Bye.
Abhinandan: Bye. [01:07:00] Bye. Yeah, Jayshree, go ahead.
Jayashree: Okay, so I am going to, uh, be a little bit of an asshole, also a little bit moralistic. So you're saying why does Why is everyone getting into this story, right? I think this is a story that appeals very much to India's upper middle class sensibilities.
That group of people that would call themselves middle class but are not. And yes, it is an outrageous case. It is a rich, spoiled teenager driving an unregistered vehicle without a license, which was not registered, whatever. He dropped, what, 48, 000 rupees at nightclubs and pubs, he's underage, he drank with friends, uh, then he rammed two innocent people to death, and they both work as software engineers, again, you know, a sort of profession that we all have a great affinity towards.
He was given pizza on a police station, an MLA came and visited him. He's taken to court. The juvenile justice board told him that he can write an essay and that lets him off. And this is incredibly high preferential treatment. There is police [01:08:00] leniency that we've seen at every step of the way. And it is outrageous and worth outraging about that these ultra wealthy kids get to do this and then get to get away with it.
And I think the bottom line is that if a privileged person is involved in a motor accident and rich people use all their connections. And in this case, the boy couldn't tell that lie. About the driver was actually responsible because, which I think Pratik had mentioned in his story, friends of the two who had, who had been killed, they were nearby.
They were the ones who took him to the police station. So there was no chance, but I think the uncle of one of the, Deceased did say that the police tried to indicate that perhaps the driver was driving, but they couldn't because, sorry, we saw it happen. So, all that said and done though, I do not think we should lose sight of the fact that any juvenile should get bail.
I mean, that's just how it should be. We have an issue with the law. That is an issue with the law. But in India, bail jurisprudence works only in that the very rich and very powerful get bail. That is not how it should be, but we, the reason why we're so angry is that [01:09:00] we know that if we had been in that position, we would not have gotten bail.
So what we should be also fighting for is that everyone gets bail. Everyone gets the same treatment in terms of bail. And then the law will take its course, the case will be heard, the court hearing will be happening, but bail should be the right and bail should be the norm, especially when it's a juvenile.
So when you talked about earlier, when do you try a juvenile as an adult, I understand that's a case by case sort of basis, but The guy is 17. He is a juvenile. I mean, yeah, by legal definition of the law, he is a juvenile and I think this is sort of like a reflection on India, right, that basic civil liberties are so strictly available to the very rich and very powerful, and if you read that news laundry story on the reliance driver of the car, that really tells you, like, news stories sort of vanished overnight,
people
Jayashree: took down things and all, so it's the same thing.
And in this case, just that we know that we would never have access to these sort of legalities, so it's a terrible thing. But should the juvenile get bail? Yes, he should get bail. I think it should be as simple as that.
Abhinandan: Samansah, what's your take on this whole [01:10:00] No, in this Like, how do you deal when there are Every actor in the whole film is a dick.
Including the child and the adults. So, how do you kind of comment on that space?
Raman: No, I think, uh, first of all, uh, father Car is in the name of his father. Maybe it was a present to son, but 17 year old guy cannot own the car. So the father, first of all, there should be a proper case against him. He should be locked up for a long time.
He needs to be punished. Number one. Secondly, uh, I, I know that in Delhi, uh, in India, when you, you make laws this 16 to 18 year old, I mean, uh, if we can consider them as adult and Prosecute them accordingly. Uh, it's not a bad law, but it can be misused. Uh, that, uh, possibility is there. I mean, so far as the law is concerned
Abhinandan: and again, it can be [01:11:00] used selectively depending on your access.
Yeah.
Raman: But in this particular case, Uh, I don't know his demeanor. I mean, the fact that he was drinking spent 48, 000 rupees just on the things. I mean, the amount of drinking he must have done. Uh, so, so I think, uh, I think, uh, he should be, I mean, if, if he's, he's tried as an adult, why not?
Abhinandan: You're okay with that.
Prateek, what did you
Jayashree: have to say? Not a nitpick, but was it, Prateek, was it 48, 000 bill for all 13 people who went out or was it 48, 000 bill just for all 13 people?
Abhinandan: All 13. But what is your take on this whole, you know, juvenile or not juvenile decides? Should it be depending on case to case
Prateek: case to case?
But in this case, like, uh, coming back to Jesse, Jesse was saying he, like, uh, uh, one of his uncle, not his uncle, one of the cop was trying to, uh, tell the, this, uh, victims of, uh, friends, all these steps. No, no, this guy was not driving driver. Uh, the driver was the [01:12:00] person who was on the wheels. Yeah.
When it comes to, ah, so rules can be, you can bend the rules like this.
But background.[01:13:00]
He knows the power of money. That's all.
Abhinandan: You know, like they have that law in the us I dunno whether it is federal or state specific, that if a minor gets access to a weapon and causes damage, the. Parents will be tried for that murder or, you know,
Jayashree: but here also though, isn't that why the father's booked on a motor vehicles?
Because,
Abhinandan: but, but, so I think that, so I think like, you know, tried the parent for murder, because what that Lewis, then you have the lifelong guilt of saying that dude, my dad or mom is in prison because of me. It will have an uncoached and parents will also learn that dude. Put some ush on them, but, but
Jayashree: here the father ran off to Orba.
That
Abhinandan: is, see the beauty clicked, but leading by example. And I
Prateek: dunno, I mean this, but like my said, this was idea of his father, his grandfather, grandfather's
Abhinandan: idea.[01:14:00]
You know? Uh, sir, I dunno whether you were there. I will not give the specifics of the case. 'cause then people know who it is and then it, unless you have the evidence and also it opens you up. The person who told us a very well known editor, I think you were in the room when this. was narrated to us. A very well known editor, everybody would know him, told us about a particular case, very high profile case of a child who had done major damage and caused, um, some horrible things.
Uh, uh, years later, when they said it to met the parent, the parent had no remorse. The parent was you media Wallace went after my kid. After all, what did he do? And then he referred to the person who was deceased in disparaging way. So that person was only this, no? Look at our family. He actually believed that shit.
Were you there upstairs when, uh, so so that is the attitude that Raik is talking about. I think that attitude needs to be [01:15:00] broken. That really, that's your family. Let's, let's take care of that. And, and,
Jayashree: but again, I think that also comes back to a very India sort of thing. No, because the, the rich are so rich.
Mm-Hmm. And the poor are so poor. So that divide and also the way that they think of sort of value or lack of value they put on other people's lives. And Craig was talking about that hoarding, right? The 17th person I think died yesterday. And just yesterday and 17 people died, but what value do we place on that when compared to the sort of rich chap driving a Porsche?
And I'm sure though, I mean, okay, I don't know. We don't know anything about these people, but I'm sure they put very little sort of premium on other people's lives. So this is just a story that then later you will tell, you'll talk about it. Child will go abroad, study in the U. S., come back, and he's living his life.
But it's all about
Abhinandan: power. You see, the thing is that because of, and that's the problem with the media, you know, you, you show your righteousness to someone who can't punch you back.
Prateek: I'll give
Abhinandan: you a simple example. This joke of a journalist at Times Now who [01:16:00] barged into the ARP office, you know, who said, how can you stop me?
I will, we are, what, we are the media, you have, Let's you barge into the PMO or the BJP office like that and the cops came also to listen that he pushed my mic He let me let you sit in a fire I actually at one point had thought because I did this years ago and then later I felt bad and Prema Who was at times now and I remember watching her on a show You know, chasing someone and now she runs probe and you know, I think she's doing some great work.
But at that time, she was at times now and at a press conference, I happened to be there. News laundry had just opened and I was like, let me ask her about Arnab. And I took my mic and I started chasing her and she started running and I carry the story. It's on news laundry. And later she said, Abhinandan, please, you know, I was like, you do this all the time.
Like, you know, can't I, like, isn't that, I'm just learning from you. Yeah. Cool. She was like, I got to do this. Please don't do this to me. [01:17:00] Same when me and Madhu met Arnab at Khan market and we went to him. Come on. Yeah. What are you doing? Come on. Come on. Yeah. Madhu, come on. Yeah. I've been on. What are you doing?
We carry that. Let's see you do that. If I want to ask that buffoon, Shiv Shankar, or this, you know, the drama that Navika keeps doing, can I barge into the Times office? Right. I mean, these guys are pretty idiots, man. Like, what world are It is basically, if I have the back of a bigger mafia, so it has nothing to do with being righteous.
If they were righteous, they would have picked on the Aston Martin case. That can not just bend the law, it can bend the country. But they don't have what it takes. Or they'll be
Raman: fired.
Abhinandan: So, all these guys, so, as they say in Hindi cinema, they are showing their worth, that I can mess with him, who else do I have to take the responsibility to mess with him?
Anyway, but [01:18:00] any closing thoughts on
Jayashree: this, Prateek and Jayshree? But what is Aukat? Aukat is a very
Abhinandan: crude word for your calibre of personality. Who you can punch up. What is your caliber of combat? But it's a bad word, is it? Okat is a very crass way of saying caliber. It has negative connotations. Yeah, it is, it is like, you know, it's, yeah.
I mean, usually Amrish Puri will use it in the film, not Amitabh Bachchan.
Jayashree: Ah, okay. I get the distinction. But then when you're talking about media, I mean, I think there were several things that we saw this week that were really bad. I saw the front page of my Times of India today had this very fawning interview with Modi, which started off and then carried over into a large page inside.
Then there was that Prashant Kishore interview with Karan Thapar. There was, oh God, there was Smita Prakash's interview with Kapil Sibal. And all the same thing, that, that entire tone of, not, not Karan Thapar, Karan Thapar I thought was interesting for other reasons, but the entire righteous, we are the bastions [01:19:00] of free truth.
Who are you to stop us? That tone is very, very sort of ingrained and. I think it really comes out in sort of these sensational cases like this where they have no really like hill to die on here. They could really go
Abhinandan: all out. I mean, as a test case that, you know, since there's so much we discussed, I'm just thinking out loud.
What do you think if we sent our reporters each to each of these, you know, these, these Offices in Noida and in Republic. I'd say, you know, barge in and get a bite of Accountability from Navika, from Arnab, from, uh, Rahul Kamal. Basically all the primetime jokers. And we record it. I'm just curious, like, is it, cause that's not what we do, we're not interested in that shit.
But just To compare apples with apples and oranges with oranges, I'm wondering as an exercise, would it be stupid we're doing the same thing or would it actually, would we be making a point or none of the above?
Raman: No, I don't.
Jayashree: I vote for point because I'm not, I'm not the reporter who has to [01:20:00] barge in. So I'm like send Pratik.
Abhinandan: I think we should see what happens. What do you think? Would it make a point or it wouldn't make any point? Everybody already knows.
Prateek: No, no, no. Everybody knows. Um, everybody knows,
Abhinandan: right? Uh, so on that note, uh, we will get onto the emails. We will not read all today. We'll read a few. We have quite a few actually, uh, but we also don't have Manisha and the full strength here.
We have 17, 18 emails. So let's read about 10 of the smaller ones, Jayshree. Uh, and we only entertain the email, the critique, the feedback, criticism, anything of subscribers. If you just want to, you know, leave a message saying, Abey, chooti you can leave it in the YouTube comments below. Because I don't read those, or on Twitter.
But you know,
Jayashree: I, I read YouTube comments and there's one comment I've been seeing about me for the past, I want [01:21:00] to say like six months. Which is? There's always one guy who asks why I'm wearing a wig. And I just want to say, I know, like maybe my screen resolution is not great, but guys, this is not a wig.
It's real
Abhinandan: hair. In fact, we discussed, in fact, whoever is leaving this comment, we discussed that she gave herself a haircut and both me and Manisha reserved our comment. Don't give yourself haircuts. You don't.
Jayashree: Yeah. So I just want to say to that man, maybe it's the same guy every week. Maybe it's, I don't know, but it's, this is actually my hair.
So
Abhinandan: real hair. Yeah.
Jayashree: It's just an. Unfortunate cut. That's it.
Abhinandan: So yes, uh, the rest, if you have anything more significant to say, you can mail us at podcasts at newslondon. com. I repeat podcasts at newslondon. com, or you can just click on the link below a window will open and you can. given your feedback, but please keep it below 150 words so we can include as many as possible.
Jayashree, please go ahead.
Jayashree: Yes. So the first [01:22:00] letter is from Ujwal who says, my question is on the organized, my question on the organized nature of Ram Mandir decor and public spaces was brushed off by Shardul who claimed I don't understand India. I thought his answer has more to do with his own mandir time tribulations than the uniformity of the decor.
Raman sir did respond to my specific question, but I was very glad to see this exact issue was explored and reported on by Srinivasan Jain in Myth Vs Reality. This is what I love about NL's reportage. So glad to be a supporter. Thank
Abhinandan: you, Jewel. So glad you are.
Jayashree: A question. I thought TNM's story about VVPAT malfunctions from Kerala had an alarmist's tone.
Despite important details such as the extra slip reportedly marked not to be counted, the story gave voice to unsubstantiated and theoretical questions about VVPAT's integrity. In my view, NL reports typically have impeccable balance, gravity and tone. I want to take the NL editor's view on whether they too would have taken the same approach in reporting on this incident.
Abhinandan: Daman Sir, I think we discussed this actually. Daman Sir, you had certain reservations with what are the conclusions you can draw. [01:23:00] It's not that compelling and certain. Yeah, yeah.
Raman: It is not. VVPET, uh, in fact, you know, uh, I have spoken to, uh, whoever has voted at least. 40 to 50 because I was also curious that whether they check the Vivipet or not.
In fact, I told my many of my relatives and I myself, it comes for the seven minutes. I did not find seven seconds, not even one. Case I found, which was, uh, you know, everybody saw the same
Abhinandan: Right. Although
Raman: the upper, whoever they working, I think
Abhinandan: on this, uh, Joel, just check out, uh, the LTA with, uh, Mr. Koi, Dr.
Koi, sorry. He's a PhD. Uh, he's explain in great detail of how this works. So yeah,
Jayashree: next night is from Deridge. Who says, thanks for all the work you do, enjoying your coverage of elections. Great to see your entertaining questions being raised off EC in this regard. AAN and hafta 4 8 1 while responding to the German quote, discarding the AVMs [01:24:00] over trust issue took refuge, and how common citizens don't actually understand how the digital economy or transactions work, but that cannot be grounds to discarding digital payments.
This argument is flawed because voting is a democratic right. Unless the EC provides an alternative to EVMs for those who don't trust them, the way there's an alternative to digital payments, that argument does not hold. Again, thanks and all the very best. Thanks, Dheeraj. Kapil says, Dear Nikku, Just out of curiosity, I want to know what will happen to legacy media if VGP loses Lok Sabha 2024?
Will they continue spreading BJP's propaganda? Will they try to please the party that has won? Will the new government also start using them? P. S. Please don't say you'll retire after 55. I want you to live until 107 and keep working in news laundry at least until 103. My god.
Abhinandan: Yes. A long way
Jayashree: to go for you.
Abhinandan: Kapil, you have chosen a very specific age. Uh, but, um, let's see, uh, uh, I, I want to [01:25:00] spend at least 10 years of my life where my body still works in sport. Uh, coming to your point, I hope you watched Nuisance this week. Since Manisha is traveling, I thought I'd take over and machao my gandh. I have actually addressed exactly this and I've also pulled out a video from before Modi of Sudhir Singh saying, Sonia ji mein itni energy kaise hai?
Kyunki un dino, urja ko energy kaithe the. So, uh, dude, they'll turn on a dime. They'll turn. You have no idea how shamelessly and how quickly they turn. They will be legacy
Raman: media of
Abhinandan: the new government. It's commerce. It's simple.
Jayashree: The next letter is from Nitesh, who says, I want to address recent requests from a college to cease sending them the News Laundry newsletter due to fears of potential reprisal.
It's disheartening to witness such timidity, which brings to mind a poignant scene from the film Scent of a Woman, where Al Pacino's character delivers a line that resonates deeply with Abhinandan's sentiments. Quote, there [01:26:00] are prosthetics for broken limbs, but there's no prosthetic for a broken soul.
Yeah, man,
Abhinandan: that was such an amazing speech. I mean, each line of that is imprinted. The one line I loved was, he says, center woman.
Jayashree: I remember that dancing scene very vividly. He says,
Abhinandan: some, uh, I'm waiting with someone. He'll be here any moment. He says, some people can live a lifetime in a moment. But in that scene where he says, I'll show you out of order.
If I was half a man that I was. I'd, I'd take a flamethrower to this place, but now I'm too old, too tired and too fucking blind. I love that line.
Jayashree: The reluctance to engage with uncomfortable truths reflects a profound weakness of spirit. I've included the link to the scene from the movie for your reference.
Let's continue our commitment to fearless journalism despite the challenges we encounter. Love the line. Nitesh.
Abhinandan: Thank you so much.
Jayashree: Next is from Ganesh, who says, Hi Niltim, I watched Srinivasan Jain's interview with Ms. Priyanka Gandhi. I've [01:27:00] also been following Mr. Gandhi's speeches on YouTube. Maybe I'm imagining it, but there seems to be a certain maturity and frankly, political savvy in both their speeches and campaigns.
Above all, there's a sense of humility that you don't find with Sahib and his coterie. There was this really nice moment where Ms. Gandhi apologized to Srinivasan after interrupting him. I know none of this will translate to votes, but it's refreshing to see an alternative begin to emerge. Maybe there's hope for 2029.
Keep up the great work. Thanks, Ganesh. The next is from Faizan Ansari, who says, Hi NL team. I was quite confused in my early twenties with the likes of digital news platforms like in shorts and the apps of mainstream media outlets. I keep wondering how is this news relevant? That's when I found Hafta and it's been my weekend ritual for the last four years.
I take great comfort in it. Thank you. I also became a regular listener of Daily Dose, but it's been discontinued. I know Avinandan and the rest realize that a bigger market for podcast news needs to be tapped into. I think the best way to do that is to promote all examples in the medium. So can you please frequently suggest some daily news podcasts you like and include [01:28:00] more Indian news podcasts in your hafta recommendations?
Maybe you're doing it already and I'm missing it. Much love. Always wishing you the best and
Abhinandan: funding you. Thank you so much. I'll just tell you as far as Indian news is concerned. I, I mean, I don't haven't listened to it in a while, but I used to like three things by the express. I think it was the express podcast.
Jayashree: Yeah.
Abhinandan: Uh, but one that I've started listening more frequently to is, uh, up now. Govind Raj, the core report. I have no idea what time he records it because it's uploaded in the morning when I'm up, it's already uploaded for that day. So I'm guessing he's uploaded like five in the morning. 430. That's what
Raman: we used to do at first post.
Abhinandan: I see. So although that is very, very market oriented, but it's very current and not every bit of news. And that is to do with the markets and the stock market. It hasn't biased towards economy, but it's sometimes also talks about more general things. But as far as Indian podcasts, daily podcasts are concerned, these are the only two I consume.
I don't consume any other daily podcast.
Jayashree: The next email is from [01:29:00] Batsal. Says, Hi team, I've been a long time listener for my college days and recently became a subscriber, a disruptor. In the last episode, I'd expected a bit more detailed discussion on Arvind Kejriwal's bail and his ongoing case, as well as the possible impact on the Delhi Lok Sabha elections.
I'd request you to do a Let's Talk About on AAP, just as you did on BJP. The AAP phenomenon in Delhi has been fascinating over the years. I'm sure people of my age would be interested in understanding it more. Also I want to know if I get NL stickers along with my subscription or do I have to buy them separately?
Please let me know.
Abhinandan: Vatsal, even I am not sure what the current scheme is, but just mail me abhinandansekhri at gmail. com. If you're in India, we'll get them sent to you, abhinandansekhri at gmail. com. But uh, regarding the LT on ARP. Well, I can tell you, we can do the most comprehensive LTE on
Raman: ARP. And we should in fact, because our, uh, editors, uh, Manisha and Atul, wherever they went, there was a lot of curiosity.
Lots of curiosity. Yeah. [01:30:00] She was sitting in
Abhinandan: places where there's no ARP. Everybody wants to
Raman: know about KGV world. So I think we should do one.
Abhinandan: Okay, uh, maybe after election right now, we are way, this us, everyone's super busy with all sorts of stuff, but yeah, Vatsal, noted.
Jayashree: Next letter is from Bipin, who said, I'd like to appreciate you all for the wonderful work.
This letter is mostly in response to Hafta 485. Just some thoughts from me, but before that, a shout out to Manisha and Dhania. On the political ads, the panelists agreed the ads are not as effective. I was surprised no one brought up the Abki Bar Modi Sarkar ads from the 2014 campaign. Would you consider those to be effective ads?
And Manish has said it's not just the media, but marketing that makes the BJP strong. There can be a differentiate between the two. Ravish frequently argues the media's role in underplaying whatever the opposition does and building a narrative of Modi versus who from the top down, which affects other forms of media and not just legacy.
What are your thoughts? And third, Nepal now has changed to a mixed system election with two votes, one for a representative, another for a party. It's a simple extension to first pass the post. One impact I [01:31:00] see from the change is that post poll alliances get more incentivized than pre poll. What are your thoughts on such a system in India?
Abhinandan: I don't know. On the last question, I don't know enough about it, so I cannot answer. I, I haven't thought through the implications, but the difference between marketing and what is it, uh, And advertising. Media and marketing. Uh, I mean, there is a difference. In fact, there was this one, uh, woman who was very popular on Insta who explained that difference quite well.
But, uh, but yeah, I mean, often it spills into each other, but I, I definitely do think that the media has a lot to do with creating his, it's, it's not marketing, it is the media's actual Literally advertising his invincibility.
Raman: No. Media is basically, media has, is quite instrumental in marketing him. Yeah, exactly.
And marketing him. And they're, uh, in, and uh, you know, in exchange they're getting the ads, the government ads.
Jayashree: Yeah. I think I disagree with Manisha because I also think the media is so deeply intertwined with it. It's difficult to say where that influence sort of [01:32:00] ends. Yes. And something else begins.
Abhinandan: Right.
Jayashree: Next letter is from Deepak, who says, This is to Abhinandan. You quoted in a Hafta that anyone under the impression that Mr. Modi will go peacefully, even if he loses an election, is living a dream. If the BJP ever loses in the centre, they will burn the country to the ground rather than relinquish power.
The way Modi is showing his real face all through his hypocritical speeches. Does this show that the time has come for your words to come true? I feel so. Oh dear. I'm,
Abhinandan: it was a ran
Jayashree: bleak letter. ,
Abhinandan: I'm always an optimist. Uh, so I, I mean, I don't think we are there yet. Uh, but yeah, I mean I do think that like, for example, lemme just take the example of C Sing from 17 C, see the Trump playbook and the BJP Modi, I will not say BJP because I think.
Under different leadership, the BJP can be a different party. I'm not saying they'll be totally secular because Hindu is their core vote base, but it will not be this. [01:33:00] Trump flirted with what is constitutionally viable. In fact, in one case he got the Supreme Court to reverse something that was a federal right like abortion.
Take the case of the selectors or electors, whatever they call them. It is not mandated that they have to honor the state's Will they can actually vote against what the popular vote was because it's not legislated. So he's testing what is possible to do. Similarly, the election commission saying that it's not legally mandated that we have to, you know, make public what the turnout has like, what a ridiculous thing to say, but maybe they're right.
It's not legally mandated because most people of sound mind thought this is too obvious. But they say, but it's not written down. So I think anywhere where say, okay, this is a gray, we can take this gray and say this rule doesn't apply. And that will be true for democracy. That'll be true for homes.
leveling everything. So I, I think that is, [01:34:00] they will definitely go down that route, uh, in, in any way they can. I mean, the CEC's latest, you know, position, it's not legally mandated. It's an indicator of, you can say the most stupid things as long as it centralizes power and secrecy and control.
Jayashree: This is like my school.
I remember, so we had a lot of rules on Dress code. Hair must be cut like this. Clothes must be done like this. Whatever. So there was one guy in my class who came to school with, he dyed his hair multi colored. So the teacher was like, oh my God, what the fuck and all. And he's like, yeah, but it's not, you didn't say I can't do it.
But then they had to explicitly write it down. So it's the same thing. It's you're testing whatever you can get away with it. And you're getting away with it.
Abhinandan: And you're getting us. And we will read one last email, uh, which, uh, or let's just take two. One is Yeah, but
Jayashree: one I'm reading which is complimentary to me.
Oh, go for it then,
Abhinandan: please.
Jayashree: First I'll read one more and then I'll read my letter.
Abhinandan: Okay.
Jayashree: So this next letter is from Mohit. [01:35:00] Who says I've really enjoyed reading the election funding stories done over the past few months by NL and others. The quid pro quo as well as Hafta Vasuli by the government in power is very evident in these stories.
But who is missing from the list is even more surprising than who is on it. Any random person on the street can tell this regime has curried enormous favours to the Adani group, a name mostly missing from all electoral funding talk. Has any media house asked the Adani group or the BJP whether there is funding that goes from one to the other?
Is there a special way the Adani group funds political parties or is the funding by Adani too much of a taboo topic to touch for any media holes?
Abhinandan: So I, I know that some of the companies that did electoral bonds were connected to promoters who were connected to Reliance. It wasn't a direct, uh, I don't know if that was true for Adanis, but
Raman: No, we are.
trying to find the strings, but, but yes, so far we haven't found, but it doesn't mean that we do not want to report about it, but we can only report [01:36:00] facts.
Abhinandan: Right. Absolutely.
Jayashree: Also, it's wishful thinking to say, have you ever asked the Adani group and have they said yes, because they will not. I mean, if life was so easy, we would have no jobs.
So
Jayashree: yes. And the last letter from Ravi who says, hi folks. I want to thank everyone, especially Jayshree. for the weekly reading recommendations. A few months ago, she recommended the Mistborn novels that were a lovely rabbit hole. I ended up reading everything Brandon Sanderson wrote. It seems like the will of the many will be similar.
Also, thank you for amazing independent journalism. I've enjoyed both Hafta and Chacha for the last few years, and the recent election coverage. One tiny feedback, please don't add a disruptor subscription for NLCNR contributions. It downgraded my subscription and the podcast RSS feed stopped working. I then fixed it by buying a joint TNM
Abhinandan: subscription.
Okay, that's an interesting glitch, Ravdeep. I shall share this with our tech team. Thank you. Thank you for this. Then I'll just read two more short emails. One is Rinzin says, just [01:37:00] curious if Atul Dev, who wrote that long piece in Guardian, reached out to you and wants Newslaundry to publish the piece about Amit Shah on Newslaundry.
Would you publish it? So I'll let Raman Sir answer. I don't know if you've read that Guardian piece on Amit Shah. So I'll just tell you from what I know, we are not afraid of publishing anything. If, if you have evidence, yes. But while I liked that piece and I recommended it, I know Raman Sir dislikes pieces that have too much of opinion.
Whether the writers or other people. So I'm not sure you'd publish it in that form. You would publish it but you'd tweak a lot of things.
Raman: If it is well argued, you'd Uh, if it is well researched,
Abhinandan: yes, why not?
Raman: But
Abhinandan: I've noticed you'd, even if it is well researched, you'd, you'd, uh, dislike, unless there's a direct A means B means C, unless it's direct, you don't like the suggestions.
So I've seen you change a lot of that, but yeah, so that is, uh, the only thing. And there's one more [01:38:00] very short email, which we shall also finish that, which is anonymous. Was appalled to find that India sending weapons to Israel to carry out genocide in Gaza, the one was recently intercepted in Spain, and it having zero coverage of any sort.
Has our country fallen this much morally? This is where we've, this is what we have to resort to. Have we always had this poorest stand when it came to this conflict or have Indians become so apathetic and nothing matters to us anymore? I'm not sure that ship was carrying weapons, was it? It was. It was
Raman: it, I read a, I read a small report even I was expecting much more because we don't have that kind of, uh, resources to go there.
Resources go there, but we, he is right. We haven't got anything on. There was just one. It was,
Jayashree: I think, a Danish. ship that went from Chennai port to Haifa.
Abhinandan: So just, I mean, cause I then misunderstood the story. Was the accusation that we had, um, helped route the weapons or were those our weapons? It
Raman: started from Chennai.
So we don't know. Okay. We don't know. That is the gray area. [01:39:00] Okay. It started from Chennai. It had come from India and it was carrying weapons. Now whose weapons they are, we don't know that. Okay. So,
Jayashree: no, but I think it also had a, if I'm wrong, I'm not sure. I think it had a Denmark flag. So I don't know. Uh, it was a Danish flagged ship, but I don't know the arms on board.
It is the question mark. I
Abhinandan: didn't read any detailed report on it because I don't think there were any, but I spoke with
Raman: one small report came tiny report. And then I
Abhinandan: spoke to one journalist about this. Generally, we weren't talking about what journalists suggested was that We had assisted in, you know, routing it, but I'm not sure if the suggestion was that the weapons were ours.
But on that note, uh, we shall end this hafta, but not before we get the recommendations of our panelists. Uh, you want to start Jayshree?
Jayashree: Yeah, I have, uh, I have a couple of recommendations, both, [01:40:00] uh, similar. So, uh, my first recommendation is a television show called 11 22 63. It's a 2016 miniseries that came out starring James Franco.
It's based on a book by Stephen King that is fantastic. So basically 11 22 63 refers to November 22nd, 1963, which is the day. John F. Kennedy was shot. So the book and the series is about a time traveler, a school teacher who tries to sort of go back in time to prevent the assassination of JFK. And along the way, he tries to prevent other bad things can happen from happening, but what is the cost?
Will it work? And it's a fantastic book and it's an extremely gripping television show. I thought the show would be pretty bad, but they sort of managed to pack together a lot of intrigue, some romance and humor. And it's shot in a very sort of 90s style, which I like. Like the soundtrack and the, just sort of the treatment of it.
So watch it. It's very good. And my companion recommendation for this is a seven part series on JFK's assassination from the rest is history, which is this podcast [01:41:00] by Tom Holland and Dominic Sandbrook. They're
Abhinandan: too good, man.
Jayashree: Yeah. And it's, I just love their banter. Like I don't agree with them on a lot of things, but they just work.
And you would think, you know, a podcast on history is, It has the potential to be really boring, especially because it's just two men sort of talking in a slightly academic way, but it is beautiful and it's interesting. And so especially JFK's assassination, because, you know, did Lee Harvey Oswald act alone?
Was he a tool for darker forces? Was the CIA involved? Was there an international conspiracy related to the cold war? So this is told over seven It's seven episodes and it's very well done. So I recommend you listen to it first and then you watch the show and then you read the book. So that'll keep you busy until the end of the election.
Abhinandan: Prolonged. Till Jayshree is back. Okay.
Prateek: Good enough.
Abhinandan: Pratik.
Prateek: So this La Patta Ladies, uh, my recommendation is that, and there is a legal case.
Abhinandan: I believe that's very good, but we're
Prateek: getting [01:42:00] good reviews from it.
Isn't
Abhinandan: that the one someone had filed contempt? Was it for that or for something else? I think that was for that other film with, um, contempt of cor making a mockery of.
Prateek: Uh,
Abhinandan: I
Raman: have three recommendations, three groups. In fact, uh, one, I would suggest that someone should watch Prashant Kishore's interview with Barkha Dutt, NDTV, Wire. Wire interview. Uh, Prashant Kishore's macroanalysis makes a lot more sense. Uh, uh, [01:43:00] where, where he talks about the wave or, you know, and I think he makes a lot more sense.
Quite, quite, uh, this thing. Yes, he had a fight at wire because he had predicted something wrong in the past, which he did not. He was very adamant that he did not say it. That's besides the point. But about this election, McQuarrie. But when he talks about it, I, I read one piece by Sudha Pai, uh, which came out in an express this week and Sudha Pai had given the micro, uh, you know, analysis, uh, of, uh, you know, the ongoing polls in UP.
I used to think that. Congress really started very late. Even now, I think they, they, they came up with this India block, you know, very late, but still a lot more thinking has gone into the placement of, uh, you know, [01:44:00] candidates, selection of candidates in Uttar Pradesh, which was very interesting. So, if it comes to arithmetic and, uh, Then, then I think they stand a good chance in UP to make some debt.
I don't say that complete debt, but a little debt. So, so these two should be read, you know, together. And that gives a very good, uh, uh, peep into, uh, you know, this, uh, understanding this, the ongoing election. Uh, the second, uh, Uh, is, uh, you know, today, uh, since we are discussing, uh, this Pune case. Mm. So one, uh, you know, ex IPS of retired IPS officer, she wrote a piece in Indian Express.
I think, uh, I hope, I think Indian Express, otherwise I'll just get it correctly in which he has written that how. These cases, if you see all the cases that you were listing [01:45:00] that in most the cases, they just, uh, they get away with murder. Why? Because the justice is delayed. So he, she has talked, talked about judicial infrastructure, uh, because he's, she says that, uh, Whoever the witness is, they just go hostile, don't hostile.
So it's very difficult to make case. It goes high, it goes for so long, seven years, age years. No one wants to their life to be stuck today. Yeah, sure. So, so, so they, they go hostile and that is why, so, so why the government doesn't, you know, invest into the judicial infrastructure Hmm. To, uh, you know, for this pd, uh, justice trial, this cases, is it
I don't remember. Uh, I, but it came out today, I think, explicit. And, uh, the third is, uh, you know, our election show at, uh, Manisha and, uh, Atul. Mm. They have done at GNUI have so much hope for the coming generation. Mm.
I
Raman: mean, they talk a lot more [01:46:00] sense, and I would suggest. That you should go through all the, all our election shows with the students, with the young generation.
I think they are really good. They are thinking people. They, they, they apply logic to whatever they say. Uh, they don't come out with the rant.
Abhinandan: Hmm. So that only we
Raman: do. So, so, so I, I really liked. Uh, the JNU one, you know, especially where you had students from Delhi University and JNU. Right. So, so these three recommendations.
Abhinandan: Those are your three. So I have two recommendations. One is a Vox piece. Uh, by Zach Buchamp, everyone is absolutely terrified inside the US allies secret war on its American critics. And it, um, talks about the Indian troll army that intimidates critics anywhere in the world. And I've, I'm quite surprised at how effective they are.
I mean, I knew they were noisy, but I, I didn't really think they could actually silence [01:47:00] people to the extent that this piece suggests. And the second is, uh, my favorite NPR planet money. It's a short nine minute podcast, the winner take all problem. And it's a very interesting take, uh, with some research and experts on why it is so much harder for women to make it to the top, uh, than men.
And other than tangibles, there is one intangible, which is that, um, the incentives that are set up in organizations. I mean, I'm not sure the nurse or one media, but typical corporate organizations, especially wall street, those incentives. The behavioral incentives are aggression, ruthlessness, you know, flirting with rules.
Uh, and typically men demonstrate those incentives, those attributes more than women. And there's data to suggest. So the incentives of what [01:48:00] a leader should be is warped at a very early stage, which is why women don't make it. It's very interesting piece. Uh, and it, it, it got me thinking, how do you, set a workplace culture.
So yeah, I just think I had put on the group. I said, everyone, please listen to this. So I don't know how many people actually listened to it. I hope they did. So these are my two recommendations. Uh, thank you for supporting us. Please continue to support us. We need as many subscribers as possible so we can do reporters in every state in the country.
And we're still some distance from that. So please help us achieve that. Have a fantastic weekend and, uh, do watch Nuisance, uh, this week we have done a flashback of a Nuisance from, not Nuisance, it is in the Clothesline from 2012. For those of you who keep asking, where were you with, before Modi? You see where we were before Modi and see where the regular media was before Modi as well.
Have a good weekend.[01:49:00]
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