For Roger Phillips, there are two stories - two moments - that sum up the pivotal role BBC Radio Merseyside has played in this region particularly well.
One of them is the 1989 Hillsborough disaster. A tragedy which would claim the lives of 97 Liverpool fans. Phillips had been established at the station for more than a decade before that fateful day in Sheffield and he and his colleagues would play a vital part, first in trying to inform people of what was going on - and later for those trying to process the horror of what had unfolded.
"When things happen, people come together and they come to local radio" says Phillips, 75, who retired after a stellar 42 years with the station in 2020.
"With Hillsborough, it felt like I was in phone ins every single day, all day long. It was pre-mobile phones but everyone was calling us to tell us what was going on. So the lie that was told about the gates being forced open, we knew that was a lie within half an hour because people were telling us. That lie took 30 years or longer to be found out - but we had it all."
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He added: "People were crying their eyes out to us, unloading to us and they used us to find out what was happening."
Mick Ord was a producer on the station at the time of the disaster. He was painting his house when he got a call telling him to head into the station immediately.
"For the next three weeks the only calls we got was about Hillsborough, the story was evolving live," he recalls.
"We were getting calls from Sheffield on the day it happened, from Liverpool as people came off the motorway. There was a social worker who came into our office and was helping people to deal with the trauma live on air.
"It would be different nowadays, but there is still something about the testimony of people's voices happening live that has such an impact - more than just a tweet or a photo on Instagram."
While Hillsborough will always loom large in the memory for Phillips and Ord, another moment that stands out vividly for both is the 1997 bomb scare at the Grand National. Threats called in by the IRA had prompted police to evacuate around 60,000 people from Aintree racecourse. Thousands were stranded on the streets of the city without anywhere to stay and without access to their vehicles.
Mick Ord was at the race with his daughter and headed straight for the station amid the chaos. "We were taking so many calls," he remembers. "People were offering their beds out live on air and we were taking their names and addresses. We sent reporters down to the Albert Dock to offer them these beds."
"We actually put people together," Phillips adds, "I believe some of those we put together on that day are still in touch. That really wouldn't work now, we don't have the capacity."
Of course the devastation of Hillsborough and the chaos of the Aintree bomb scare are not stories you come across every day, but for both of these men they represent those moments where local media can really come into its own in a way that national media simply can't. Journalists and staff on the ground, providing local information and public services in real time.
It's a service and an offer that they both feel has already been reduced and stretched after several rounds of cutbacks and that they worry could disappear altogether under the latest controversial plans put forward by the BBC. The corporation's proposals would be drastic for local stations.
All 39 networks in England will keep their current schedule from 6am until 2pm, but after that some shows will be shared. This could mean just a breakfast show and a lunchtime show would remain as individual programmes for some local stations.
Under the plans, afternoon and evening output could consist of shows broadcast on multiple local stations across large swathes of the UK or nationally - although there is a hope within Radio Merseyside that it won't be the worst affected. The proposals could also see nearly 50 jobs lost across the country as the corporation attempts to deal with the ongoing impact of a licence fee freeze and a £400m blackhole in its finances.
It won't come as any surprise to anyone that for Roger Phillips - one of Radio Merseyside's most famous ever presenters - and Mick Ord - the station's longest ever serving manager - these plans are akin to cultural vandalism.
"It means the end of local radio for me" says a visibly angry Phillips, whose legendary afternoon phone-in show was vital listening for anyone wanting to take the temperature of this busy and vibrant region.
He believes the latest plans are the culmination of a longer term move to reduce - and maybe even remove - the localness of BBC Radio. "Ages ago they started to centralise the music," he adds. "So if you now listen to Radio Merseyside or Radio Manchester and switch between the two you will hear the same music at the same time.
"When I arrived, Radio Merseyside was completely different from Radio Manchester and every other local radio station because local radio was local, catering to a local audience and all the presenters knew what that audience wanted - they still do but they are not allowed to do it. The whole centralisation thing is about trying to save money but the budget cuts have already been disastrous. The BBC has got some fine local radio presenters but they are so confined."
Phillips says a move to four hour shows that started during the pandemic but has continued, is already putting too much stress on presenters and producers. "Ridiculous", he exclaims, "It came in as an excuse during covid, they said it would be temporary but it wasn't. It is too long for listeners and for presenters - it's not workable and you are having to push stuff into it that you wouldn't ordinarily. It's a nonsense."
While Phillips and Ord may think stations like Merseyside have already lost some of what they previously offered through cuts, anyone would accept there is still great local radio being broadcast every day. Presenters like Tony Snell, Linda McDermott, Paul Salt, Sean Styles and Linda McDermott remain very popular and each have their own unique ways of connecting with local people.
As Phillips explains, the relationship between local radio presenter and listener is a special one. "They are friendships. One of the biggest things about local radio is that you always knew who your presenters were, you really did know them.
"I left two and a half years ago and every single day I still get asked 'Are you Roger Phillips, we don't half miss you'. That to me says, the most important thing about local radio is the friendships, you can't get it on national radio, it doesn't work.
"The bosses in London claim to have been involved in local radio but in my view clearly haven't, because they don't understand what it is or what it means. They will all move on because they are looking to promote themselves. From their point of view it's bottom line stuff, it is not about what the audience needs, it is what they need in terms of saving money."
Ord, who left in 2012 and now runs a media consultance, takes a similarly dim view of those making the decisions at BBC headquarters. He added: "There was a feeling of inevitability when I heard they were going to regionalise programmes. One of the reasons I decided to leave after 17 years was that I got sick of fighting a rear-guard action against this kind of thing.
"They have tried to introduce shared programming before and it was a massive flop. It's not particularly new and it's an obvious thing to do for some people to save money, which is what this is all about. I don't think any other BBC service has suffered in terms of running down like local radio. This is their default position when they need to cut.
"It will mean a greater loss of listeners, a loss of localness, a blandness, a lack of character. This area has a strong character and you wouldn't be able to have that granular local information on a shared service because people in Lancashire or Manchester wouldn't be bothered about what's happening in Toxteth or Birkenhead - just like we wouldn't be bothered about what's happening in Accrington or Salford."
Ord and Phillips were both signatories - along with Jimmy McGovern, Willy Russell, Mike McCartney and Roger McGough - to write to The Times last year in objection to the BBC's plans. They called for a "major rethink" of the proposals that would otherwise leave licence fee payers "double crossed."
It's a call and a campaign that has picked up some clout. In December the BBC's director of national Rhodri Talfan Davies had a torrid time in front of the House of Commons Digital, Culture and Media select committee.
Chairman Julian Knight slammed the cuts as "unprecedented," while fellow Tory MP Simon Jupp accused the executive of "ripping the heart out of BBC local radio." And in case anyone thought this wasn't a cross-party issue, Labour MP Julie Elliot fired a warning at the corporation, stating: “Sometimes you need to stand back and think, ‘How does this look to people who have paid their licence fee and support the organisation and are just getting these changes that make no sense?’"
Ord agrees that a serious rethink is now needed. "It's not too late," he insists, "They still have time to roll-back on some of these ideas. No one denies that the future is digital, we're not smashing the factory equipment and wanting to go back to the horse and cart, but there are people paying the BBC licence fee who deserve a lot better than what they are planning at the moment."
Those currently working at the station are concerned but also pragmatic. Marc Gaier is the station's chapel leader for the National Union of Journalists and a broadcast journalist of more than 25 years. He says those within the Hanover Street building are not against the idea of modernising, they just want to be able to do it themselves.
Marc said: "The whole thing is about moving to a digital first approach and I don't think anyone at our station would disagree that we need to do better when it comes to digital, however the union disagrees with the process being proposed for doing this in terms of sharing programmes.
"The NUJ has counter proposals because we think we can improve on this (digital output) without the need for programme sharing, we would just like to be given a chance. The problem is that once jobs are gone, they are gone forever"
Responding to our article, Jason Horton, Director of Production, BBC Local, said: "Our goal over the next 12 months is to modernise our BBC Local services in England to strengthen our online provision for communities across the country.
"We have listened carefully to the feedback we have received about proposed changes to BBC Local Radio programming. As a result, we are making a number of amendments to the original plan in order to strike the best possible balance between live and on-demand services.”
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