Months after Lucy Letby was removed from caring for babies over patient safety concerns, then-hospital chief executive Tony Chambers told her: “Your resilience, Lucy, you astound me.”
The conversation took place in December 2016 after the child serial killer was redeployed to an administrative role at the Countess of Chester Hospital following consultant paediatricians voicing fears she may have been deliberately harming infants.
Letby went on to launch a grievance against her employers, which was upheld in December, over the decision to take her out of the neonatal unit.
The Thirlwall Inquiry into events surrounding Letby’s crimes has heard the nurse was said to have felt consultants Dr Stephen Brearey and Dr Ravi Jayaram had “orchestrated a campaign” against her and that some doctors on the unit referred to her publicly as “angel of death” and “murderer on the unit”.
A meeting with Letby, her parents, John and Sue, and Mr Chambers took place on December 22 2016 in which Mr Letby called for the “instant dismissal” of the two consultants.
Giving evidence on Wednesday, Mr Chambers said: “Letby’s family, it is fair to say, were very upset and very angry about how they felt she had been treated unfairly by the trust.
“I’m prepared to accept that we had not been open and honest with her at the time.
“Letby’s father was very angry, he was making threats.
“He was making threats that would have just made an already difficult situation even worse by threatening GMC (General Medical Council) referrals to the doctors.
“He was threatening guns to my head and all sorts of things.”
During the meeting, Mr Chambers told Letby: “Your resilience, Lucy, you astound me.”
Mr Chambers told the inquiry: “I say it twice.”
I have to say I didn't feel I was manipulated at the time
Counsel to the inquiry Nicholas de la Poer KC said: “Have you ever made such a statement in relation to the consultants for the bravery they showed when trying to speak out to keep babies safe?”
Mr Chambers said: “Yes, in many of the meetings that took place during July 2016.
“If you look at the notes, all of the meeting notes end with a reference to thanking everyone for their contributions, for their open candid contributions to the discussion and a very clear statement about these matters being really difficult, let’s take care and look after each other.”
Mr Chambers went on to ask the consultants to apologise to Letby for the alleged derogatory remarks, the inquiry has heard, and a follow-up meeting took place with Letby and her mother in early February 2017.
Letby told Mr Chambers she wanted individual apologies from four consultants in particular.
Mr de la Poer said: “Bringing in hindsight, she is sitting there knowing the crimes she has committed. Would you agree that was deeply manipulative behaviour?”
Mr Chambers said: “I have to say I didn’t feel I was manipulated at the time, I really don’t know.
“It was her father who seemed to be pulling the strings as opposed to herself.
“In handling these matters with Letby, I was very conscious to try as much as possible to avoid further escalation particularly from her father.
“Her father was not at this meeting but you got a sense of his presence.”
Eight years on with what we know and we look at this, these are the kind of things you know you didn't get right
Mr Chambers also told Letby: “Lucy, don’t worry, we have got your back.”
Asked for his response to that comment, Mr Chambers said: “Clumsy language. The intention here was to avoid any possible escalation.
“Eight years on with what we know and we look at this, these are the kind of things you know you didn’t get right.”
Mr de la Poer said: “If this was an attempt by Letby to take control and get what she wanted and go on the offensive, then she succeeded in recruiting you to that, didn’t she?”
Mr Chambers replied: “No, I don’t think so at all.
“My take on all of this is that the only thing Letby wanted was something to acknowledge that she had been treated unfairly.
“She sought no other redress, that I was aware of, other than at some point – subject to all the plans and processes – to get back to a job she really loved.”
Letby, 34, from Hereford, is serving 15 whole-life orders after she was convicted at Manchester Crown Court of murdering seven infants and attempting to murder seven others, with two attempts on one of her victims, between June 2015 and June 2016.
The inquiry, at Liverpool Town Hall before Lady Justice Thirlwall, is expected to sit until early 2025, with findings published by late autumn that year.
